Category Archives: Justice System

Average Joe SCOTUS: Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo

Ever heard of the Chevron Oil Company? They’re kinda a big fucking deal in big oil.

Well, they were also kinda a big fucking deal in America’s court system.

Before we get into Loper and Raimondo, our case for today, we have to understand why Chevron was such a BFD in the courts. It goes back to 1984 landmark case, Chevron U. S. A. Inc. v. Natural Resources Defense Council, Inc.

No one knew at the time, that it would be a landmark case, initially, it was your basic snooze fest. But, it has since been cited in other cases over 18,000 god damn times.

Was Chevron a fascinating case with a compelling opinion? That’s a big nope. And, since this isn’t our case today, I’m just going to give a simple overview.

But before we get into that, we need to explain a distinction I don’t think I’ve covered before.

In the United States, we tend to think that congress are the only people who write laws. While this is the framework the constitution lays out, it gets complicated.

The word law, for our purposes, is a generic term that basically encompasses anything the government has created to control, regulate, or restrain itself, or the people. But, there are five types of things that carry the weight of law, which have different purposes.

  • The Constitution: It is the document creating government and restraining government, which all other laws derive from. So it’s the shit. From there, if:
  • Congress wrote it: This is called a statute, often called an act. This is how the constitution suggests laws are to be passed, and aside from the constitution, they carry the most weight.
  • The courts wrote it: This is called case law, or precedent. The constitution didn’t really grant this power to the courts, SCOTUS gave it to themselves in Marbury v. Madison (1803), by suggesting the constitution gave them this power when it created the courts and ordered them to interpret law. (That said, congress can then rewrite the law—invalidating the opinion. However, if the courts strike down a law as unconstitutional, congress can’t just repass a law with the same unconstitutional premise—they’d need a constitutional amendment to do that.
  • The executive (president) wrote it: This is called an executive order. Also not in the constitution. It derives from the president’s authority to execute the law. It was not initially intended to be law, so much as a temporary order. If the president needed to act quickly in an emergency, and congress wouldn’t have time to act, the president needed some power to get shit done, so this is what they came up with. It carries the weight of law, but congress can simply write a new statute invalidating or clarifying it.
  • An agency wrote it: This is called a regulation. It is meant to expand upon laws (statutes) congress wrote, not to have been new law created from nothing.

As you can see, congress ultimately has the broadest power to write laws, since they can invalidate any other forms of law, aside from the constitution itself.

President Barack Obama delivers a health care address to a joint session of Congress at the United States Capitol in Washington, D.C., Sept. 9, 2009. (Official White House Photo by Lawrence Jackson)

This case will specifically hinge around statutes and regulations, so I will make sure to use those terms appropriately. I wanted to make sure you, the reader, understand those distinctions, as this case is all about that shit.

We all know about the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), right? Well, the 1970 Clean Air Act was their jam. It had a rule that said any new major “stationary sources” of pollution had to have a permit.

The idea was, if you had a factory or some large device in a place of business which was putting out pollutants, when it came time to replace that shit or build a new one elsewhere, it required a permit. The permit would then require that the replacement was cleaner than it’s outgoing counterpart.

However, to make life easier, if a company had for instance, a group of major polluting devices that worked in concert together at one location, then one of the components of that group took a shit, the company could replace it without obtaining a new permit, so long as the replacement component didn’t increase the total pollution coming out of the whole “bubble” of devices, as they called it.

It didn’t have to be better, just equal.

So, Chevron went about replacing one of these polluting devices, without upgrading it, under this bubble rule.

Great googly moogly, did that piss off environmentalists—they were none too fucking pleased. They wanted it replaced with a cleaner device.

Since the Clean Air Act (a statute written by congress, remember) didn’t really define a “stationary source” very well, the EPA (a regulatory agency) wrote the “bubble” rule into their regulation to clarify.

In their infinite wisdom, they felt it was a reasonable interpretation of the Clean Air Act’s intent—they were the experts after all. They didn’t think that just needing to repair an otherwise operative system somehow meant a company had to overhaul it completely. Not to mention, sometimes upgrading one component would require upgrading all of them, which could get really expensive.

But of course, environmentalists are the most nauseating group of social justice warriors that ever lived, and they decided to file suit, arguing that the EPA had no right to create this definition out of nowhere, just because it wasn’t well-defined in the Clean Air Act.

SCOTUS however, decided that since the Clean Air Act was ambiguous on this shit, and the EPA were the fucking experts, in such situations the court should defer to their judgement.

This one ruling, and the precedent it set, eventually translated into the idea that all government agencies should be deferred to, going forward, if they made a regulation in their expertise, that clarified ambiguous statutes written by congress, used to create the agency, or written to be regulated by that agency. It became known as the Chevron Deference, and it has been case law ever since.

As you can imagine, with a lot of government agencies, and a shit-ton of regulations, it makes sense that this case has been cited 18,000 times.

Now that you understand the basics of Chevron, let’s move on to our case today.

A group of fisherman (Loper Bright Enterprises) liked to fish in federal waters. But in this country, we often have a problem with over-fishing, where these commercial vessels take so many fish, that those populations of fish can’t reproduce fast enough to keep the species around for others to fish later.

Congress had had enough of this shit. They passed the Magnuson-Stevens Act (MSA), which is enforced by the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS), a federal agency, similar to the EPA referenced in the Chevron case above, albeit much smaller.

I know what you’re thinking. You’re thinking, “So how the hell does the government make sure that some asshole fishermen don’t overfish an area? They’re in the middle of the fucking ocean!”

No, it’s not with satellites, or sharks with laser beams on their fucking heads. They decided that they would require these fishermen to take a fed out on the boat with them. What made it worse to the fishermen, they had to fucking pay that fed to sail with them.

Imagine, in order to prevent speeding, if the Highway Patrol made you carry an officer in the car with you, and pay their salary for doing so. It’s hyperbolic, and just used to illustrate the point, but you can see why they might have beef with this.

The Magnuson-Stevens Act passed by congress didn’t specify this was the plan, but the NMFS decided to write that regulation, presumably because they couldn’t afford to pay these narks on their own budget. Since Chevron suggested such ambiguous law could rightly be clarified by them, they fucking went for it.

Under Chevron, the courts couldn’t really undo the rules made by NMFS, since the MSA didn’t create a clear rule for them to follow. So that’s why we’re here. To determine if these fishermen have a fair beef with NMFS, and potentially, if a previous SCOTUS was running a little fast and loose when creating this Chevron deference shit.

I’m going to go out on a limb, and explain the politics of this, because why the fuck not.

It’s important to understand a couple things. Remember, regulatory agencies are created by statutes which congress writes, but then the head of that agency is appointed by the president (with the consent of congress), and can by fired by that president, if the president is unhappy with the work they’re doing.

As such, a regulatory agency, is essentially, part of the executive branch.

So the concern, is that there are situations where the president might want congress to pass a statute, but Congress simply don’t have the votes to do so.

So what may happen, is the president looks at the regulatory agencies they oversee, and if one has some tacit connection to the statute they wanted passed, but couldn’t get passed, they tell the head of that agency to write a regulation that resembles the law they wanted. And then—abracadabra-alakazam—you have a law, and you didn’t need congress to pass it.

Since the constitutional principle of separation of powers suggests laws are to be passed by congress as statutes, and not the executive orders or regulations that come from the president, you can understand the separation of powers issue some people have.

People on the right tend to be for limited government, or at least that’s what they say, so they aren’t keen to give presidents this much power.

For Democrats, they argue that if a law is ambiguous about something, it makes sense for regulatory agencies to clarify. They’re the fucking experts, and it’s why congress creates these agencies in the first place.

For instance, imagine congress passes a law that creates the EPA, and says they’re supposed to ensure that the CO2 levels in the air stay within a range that’s acceptable for all current life on earth.

Since they don’t provide an actual number, it’s ambiguous.

So then they rely on the nerds at the EPA to do some science, come up with a number, and make that the regulation. Scientists are open to revising their beliefs based on new information, so if they find out their number is wrong, they can easily update the regulation based on the new science they did.

But you know who wouldn’t figure out what that number is? The fucking courts. They’re law nerds, not science nerds.

Now that you understand both political arguments, you know what I think? They’re both fucking right! They’re making extremely valid points.

Here’s where the politics come in. The left argue that the right are basically rebuking the expertise of the scientists, and instead, acting like they can do just as good of a job interpreting this shit.

They argue that this “separation of powers” issue is swamp gas. But this, I have a problem with.

As you may remember, I wrote about a little case called, National Federation of Independent Business v. Occupational Safety and Health Administration.

I won’t re-explain the whole thing here, just know these basic facts.

Joe Biden is not an expert in virology or communicable diseases.

During the COVID pandemic, Joe Biden wanted congress to pass a law requiring everyone get vaccinated, and if not, to wear a mask in public. Presumably for as long as the CDC suggested we were in a pandemic.

Democrats were tacitly supportive of this, but Republicans were like, “Absolutely not! This is America. We’re a free country, and we don’t do shit like this.”

Joe Biden, being the senile by crafty fucker he is, unable to get congress to pass such a law, asked OSHA to make a regulation requiring vaccinations or a mask in the workplace, instead. This effectively would have had almost the same effect as the law he wanted, since the unemployment rate is only about 4%.

SCOTUS overruled that regulation, and Biden lost. But at the time, for whatever reason, they did not overturn Chevron.

President Joe Biden

So like it or not, there was a real world example of precisely what the right-wing were complaining about, that is quite recent, and quite true. A non-expert president, overstepped his constitutional authority, and bypassed congress to achieve his political goals.

So accusing the right of being conspiratorial and shit, is pretty unfair, in this case.

Anyway, now that you know all that, on to the arguments…


Up first, for the Loper Bright team, represented by veteran SCOTUS counsel Paul Clement.

Paul Clement

He opened first, by arguing that the expense of lugging around, and paying for, a fed on a fishing boat isn’t insignificant. It can be as much as 20% of their cost, for a smaller operation.

Not to mention, some of these boats are small, and an extra person gets in the way.

But then, he went after the big fish—the Chevron deference itself.

He spent most of his opening remarks saying that this deference was wrongly decided, and should be abandoned, while maintaining that the Chevron case itself was probably fairly decided.

His argument is that the courts need not determine whether the statute is ambiguous, and therefore a regulatory agency has the unquestionable right to clarify. But instead, that the courts should do what they always do, give their opinion as to what the best reading of the statute is.

Justice Thomas started by asking counsel about mandamus. What is mandamus you ask? I had to look that shit up, too.

Mandamus is when the courts, issue an order to a lower government official, telling them to do their fucking job the way they think that person ought to do it, under the law.

So for instance, if a higher court thinks a lower court have wrongly denied an innocent person their freedom on appeal, and that lower court refuses to take the actions needed to release the person, maybe because they’re arrogant cunts who think they could not have possibly fucked up, they may use a writ of mandamus and basically say, “We weren’t asking, motherfucker—release him now.”

So the nature of his question, is about whether higher courts should tell lower courts how to consider these questions, versus what the opposition wants, which is to defer to regulatory agencies and their expertise, in matters where the law isn’t very specific.

Clement was like, “the constitution gave the power to interpret law to the fucking courts. Then your predecessors, in Chevron, basically gave that power away to the executive branch, since regulatory agencies answer to the president. That’s some grade A bullshit, right there.”

So in summary, he’s saying it’s a separation of powers issue, and the court was wrong to relinquish that power. Unless we’re to amend the constitution, interpreting statutes is the job of the fucking courts.

So if a statute is ambiguous, either congress needs to rewrite it, or the courts get to interpret it. The courts are certainly free to agree with a regulatory agency, but Chevron suggests they shouldn’t even look at the agency’s regulation if the statute is ambiguous, and that shit is wrong.

Justice Sotomayor, digging her heels in early, accused Clement of using some wonderful rhetoric.

Official Portrait of United States Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor Click for Biography

She stated that if a statute uses the word “reasonable,” that it’s delegating the authority to define what is reasonable to the agency the statute created.

However, Clement was having none of this shit. He was like, “the law on domestic fisheries is that they shouldn’t incur more than 2-3% of the cost of the catch—clearly they fucking thought about this issue.

So by what reason would your dumb ass think a 20% expense for these fishermen fishing off-shore waters is what congress intended? Have you ever even running a fucking business?”

While I’m sure the regulatory agency feels empowered to do such a thing, their power comes from congress, and congress wrote similar provisions into the statute where they capped it much lower.

So the problem with Chevron is, courts would normally answer statute questions—they’re the fucking experts on that. They should be well within their wheelhouse to look at one, and say, “this dog doesn’t fucking hunt.”

Justice Roberts, coming to the defense of Chevron asked, “It seems to me, you’re arguing that the law is not ambiguous, and therefore Chevron doesn’t apply. Right?”

Supreme Court of the United States Chief Justice John Roberts

Counsel Clement was like, “let me put it another way. Chevron says, if you look at a law, and you think you could interpret it in more than one way, you assholes normally decide what the best interpretation is.

That’s your fucking job.

So why would it make sense, in this Chevron context, to all of a sudden be like, ‘Nah, we’ll let the president and his fucking minions sort this shit out.’?”

Justice Kagan chimed in next and said, “Listen you little fuckwit. In normal statutes, if congress writes a shitty fucking law, you’re right. We’re on our own interpreting that shit. We do our best best with our legal expertise.

But if there’s a law that creates an agency, congress has given us a tool to answer such questions in the form of experts. Hell, you could even argue, that the law specifically created the agency to answer those questions. But you’re saying we should shove that tool squarely up our asses and ignore it? I think not.

We’ll use that tool, because a lot of times, they fucking understand the issue way better than we do, and why the fuck wouldn’t we defer to them when congress created them for that purpose?”

Counsel Clement then tried to argue that they had an amicus brief from the House of representatives saying it doesn’t want Chevron. But boy did he fuck up mentioning this, because Justice Kagan fucking drilled him.

She rightly pointed out that congress has the power right now to overturn any aspect of Chevron it wants with new law. Clearly they fucking don’t have the votes. For forty fucking years, they haven’t done so. So you and I both know, it’s just a bunch of your right-wing assholes that wrote that shit, not congress as a whole.

Associate Justice Elena Kagan

Counsel Clement regained his composure, and put Justice Kagan back on blast with this:

It’s really convenient for some members of Congress not to have to tackle the hard questions and to rely on their friends in the executive branch to get them everything they want. I also think Justice Kavanaugh is right that even if Congress did it, the president would veto it.

And I think the third problem is, and fundamentally even more problematic, is if you get back to that fundamental premise of Chevron that when there’s silence or ambiguity, we know the agency wanted to delegate to the agency.

That is just fictional, and it’s fictional in a particular way, which is it assumes that ambiguity is always a delegation. But ambiguity is not always a delegation.

And more often, what ambiguity is, I don’t have enough votes in Congress to make it clear, so I’m going to leave it ambiguous, that’s how we’re going to get over the bicameralism and presentment hurdle, and then we’ll give it to my friends in the agency and they’ll take it from here.

And that ends up with a phenomenon where we have major problems in society that aren’t being solved because, instead of actually doing the hard work of legislation where you have to compromise with the other side at the risk of maybe drawing a primary challenger, you rely on an executive branch friend to do what you want.

And it’s not hypothetical.

He’s not wrong. The above Biden example, with his OSHA vaccine mandate—is exactly what counsel Clement is pointing out.

Counsel Clement also mentioned a “Brand X” decision often in his arguments, citing it as a prime example supporting his argument.

He’s referring to National Cable & Telecommunications Association v. Brand X Internet Services. A case where the Rehnquist court in 2005, decided that Brand X, a broadband internet company, who was trying to avoid telecommunications regulations by saying it was an internet company, won their case, because the FCC basically stated they weren’t a telecommunications company, and Chevron deference meant the courts were supposed to simply accept that shit—which they did.

His argument was that the courts didn’t agree with the FCC, but the Chevron precedent suggested they had to go with the FCC’s interpretation whether they liked it or not.

Clement seemed to be arguing that this is an opportunity for the court to say, “You know what, we have the power, not these fucking agencies. We’re not handing the power over entirely anymore, we’re taking it back.

His other underlying concern, is that these agencies are vast and varied. So their decisions create new conflicts and precedents, where one agency might decide one way, and another addressing the same exact ambiguity, might regulate in a polar opposite way.

This is in contrast to the courts, who have case law and precedent, which aims to make consistent, things like this.

He even went on to attack congress rather directly, saying that the minority are using Chevron deference to get the president, if they agree with them, to pass laws as regulations, where they know they don’t have the votes to pass themselves. That’s not a soft jab, that’s a straight bomb to the face.

It’s a clear argument that Chevron is leading to direct violations of the separation of powers doctrine our constitution lays out.

Justice Alito asked counsel Clement about what he thinks changed since Chevron was decided. Was it right then, but wrong now?

Associate Justice Samuel Alito

Counsel Clement first laid out that the courts seem to have embraced textualism more, now.

Textualism just means that the courts interpret the laws as written, not how they think congress may have intended.

He points out, that he thinks the courts were simply wrongly removed from the equation entirely, with Chevron.

If the regulation is based on the expertise of the agency, the courts could and should recognize as much, and let it stand. But the courts should not just assume that’s true and walk away before even examining it.

If the courts recognize that it’s not a regulation based on expertise, but instead, based on politics where the minority and the executive are bypassing congress, the courts should step in and put a stop to it.

Justice Kagan, not a fan of Clement’s position, asked, “we have over 70 SCOTUS cases that relied on Chevron, and over 17,000 lower court cases relied on it. You want us to blow all the shit to kingdom come? What the fuck is wrong with you? The courts will be inundated with new cases, dogs will be sleeping with cars, it’ll be total chaos!”

Clement was like, “I’m not suggesting you blow up anything. No need to revisit a bunch of old cases. I’m suggesting you have the power to interpret law. Not congress. So why the fuck would you entirely give that power to congress, in this context?”

He specifically even said:

I don’t think you actually want to invite, in all candor, that particular fox into your henhouse and tell you how to go about interpreting statutes or how to go about dealing with qualified immunity defenses.

It is rather interesting he’s trying to get the courts to take power back, and the left-leaning justices seem very unwilling to take it.

I know this is disrespectful or arrogant, and I feel bad even saying it, but I think this is a case of political ideology clouding judgement. These justices are toeing a line their political compatriots want them to, instead of thinking critically. But I will try to remain humble, and open to the idea that I’m wrong here.

Clement went on to say, “Listen, I’m not saying overturn a shit ton of cases that relied on Chevron. Again, all I’m saying, is the court shouldn’t remove itself entirely. If the agency can demonstrate to the court, it’s decision is based on expertise the courts don’t have, then the courts should certainly let that shit ride, and not decide it themselves.

But if the courts recognize it’s simple politics, and not expertise, tell them to go pound sand up their ass.

However, Chevron is saying that they shouldn’t even analyze this, and that’s the problem Clement has.


Next up for the government, Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar.

Solicitor General Elizabeth Barchas Prelogar

She started off by saying the opposition acknowledges that congress can grant authority to agencies, allowing the executive to fill in the gaps they may leave in their legislation for an expert the executive appoints, to fill.

If so, then what the fuck is this grand attack on Chevron? If congress can expressly delegate those powers, why can’t they implicitly delegate them?

She also pointed out stare decisis (latin for “Stand by what’s decided”). The courts generally don’t like to overrule themselves, because then the law is all over the fucking place. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

So she argues, the court could clarify or build upon Chevron, while maintaining the basic principle, as overruling it entirely violates stare decisis.

Justice Thomas started by asking about situations where the law is ambiguous, versus the law is just silent.

General Prolegar pointed out that there are several provisions in the act pertaining to the fishery that talk about how it would be monitored, and by whom. So she argues that the statute isn’t silent at all.

Associate Justice Clarence Thomas

Justice Neil “Golden Voice” Gorsuch was like, OK if you think this statute is clear, and we think it’s clear, isn’t that the kind of shit we interpret every day? Why should we defer that to someone else?

He then asked, “if we all, in this room, think it’s clear, but a lower court didn’t think it was, isn’t that a fucking problem?

Isn’t that evidence that interpreting the statute is almost always ambiguous? If experts on law like us, can come to two different interpretations, there has to be some ambiguousness.

If so, then this Chevron test itself, is too ambiguous? Certainly we’re not supposed to give up on interpreting every statue and related regulation and let agencies handle it? We’re the experts on statutes, not regulatory agencies.

So we should decide if it’s a statutory issue, or an issue of expertise. If it’s statutory, then we fucking decide it. The nerds can handle the other shit.”

He points out that the “ambiguity” trigger in Chevron is so vague, we can’t even decide if it applies to this case or not.

I understand if congress specifically gives the authority to the agency to answer a question in the statute. But you lost me at the idea we should just infer it if the language seems unclear to anyone. That’s crazy talk!”

Associate Justice Neil Gorsuch

Counsel Prelogar pointed out that when creating an agency, congress wholly understands its limits of expertise. It purposefully leaves gaps in these laws for these agencies to fill in with regulation, and they have the authority to do so. All Chevron does is recognize that, and honor what congress intended.

Justice Barrett then asked about the previous Brand X ruling, that used the Chevron deference as it’s underpinning. She asked, “Brand X basically said, even if we, the court, have an opinion about the law, and we think it’s better than the regulatory agency’s interpretation, if the court deems the agency’s interpretation is fair or reasonable, it has to go with the interpretation, and ignore what the court thinks is best. But you’re saying we don’t do that, we just use our best judgement based on all the interpretations?”

General Prelogar said she didn’t read Brand X that way. She felt that if the court could see congress did or didn’t delegate the authority to the agency in Step 1 (the statute), then there was no need to go to step 2 (the regulation) and decide if the regulation is fair or reasonable—the court should defer to the agency.

This talk of steps should probably be explained. Chevron was a two-step process.

Step one was to determine if the law was ambiguous or not. If it wasn’t, then Chevron doesn’t apply, and the courts should interpret the statue or regulation, how they see fit.

If the courts believe the statute is ambiguous, then they go to step 2, and determine if the regulation the agency wrote to clear up that ambiguity is reasonable. If it is, then the courts should defer to it, as opposed to coming up with their own interpretation.

Justice Barrett seemed concerned that there’s a facet of step 1 that says they don’t even go to step 2. Barrett’s argument is that the courts should at least go to step 2 and consider the regulation. Step 2 could have some pretty repugnant shit that the courts would never allow.

Associate Justice Amy Coney Barrett

Justice Roberts asked if Chevron applies to constitutional questions.

Sometimes the court just clears up ambiguously written law, but sometimes it weighs whether the law is even constitutional.

So if step 1 (the statute) is ambiguous, and step 2 (the regulation) is unconstitutional in the court’s eyes, Chevron seems to suggest the courts should still allow the unconstitutional regulation, because they were not supposed to even go to step 2.

But General Prelogar, conceding Justice Robert’s point, suggested Chevron was not meant to block constitutional questions, only to clarify statutory questions.

Counsel Prelogar suggested that they’re interpreting Chevron wrong. It isn’t that the courts don’t even get to step 2. Her opinion is that they always would.

They look at step one and simply determine if the statute is ambiguous. If it isn’t ambiguous, they would ensure that step 2 jibes with step 1, or is constitutional.

If the statute is ambiguous, then they look at step 2, and see if the regulation is reasonable, and presumably constitutional. If it is, then they roll with that shit, instead of trying to interpret it better themselves. If it isn’t reasonable, then they do what they do best—strike that shit and rewrite it.

Either way, they always get to step 2.

After this, Justice Gorsuch and General Prelogar went on a lengthy back and forth about the idea that when considering a statute, congress goes through a lengthy process, where voters can petition their congressperson, and give their opinions before a statute is passed.

Associate Justice Neil Gorsuch

But regulatory agencies just pass regulations without telling anyone, necessarily.

Justice Gorsuch is concerned that the people’s government isn’t consulting the people when regulations are passed, and Chevron cuts the people out even more.

He even reiterated the idea that every person gets their day in court, if they want it. But this deference rule sort of says, well, if the law is ambiguous, and the regulation says they don’t, then fuck ’em. They can’t get their day in court.

Justice Sotomayor went back and asked about Clement’s previous argument in regards to the 20% cost of the catch estimates, which are too unworkable, and would often leave these fisherman with no profit margin left.

General Prelogar responded that this 20% number they came up with, were from a land of pure imagination.

This was an estimate provided that it said it could go as high as 20%. In the real world where we live, it falls in the 2-3% like the others he mentioned.

She went on to say, that even if it were higher, the agency provided for waivers and exemptions, if it was truly an unworkable burden for them. So in her opinion, Clement was talking shit.

Supreme Court of the United States

I think we’ve talked about the Major Questions Doctrine, before in the aforementioned OSHA case. But it’s worth reiterating that the current court feels that major questions are to be answered by congress, not regulator agencies, working as minions for the president.

Again, citing the OSHA case, it was effectively saying the entire working population should get vaccinated, or wear a mask when at work. That’s a major question, as it affects about 96% of the population. The right-wing segment of the court things such questions should be handled by congress, who are answerable to the people if they vote that way, and should not be sneakily pushed through an agency at the president’s behest instead.

General Prelogar knows this court’s majority agrees with this doctrine, so she made an effort to suggest that Chevron is workable within the major questions doctrine, because again, she’s suggesting that Chevron allows for the courts to analyze both steps, the statutory and regulatory, and decide if there’s some sort of over-reach, or other political bullshit going on, and rule accordingly.

Convincing them of that, is probably her only chance of winning this shit.

Counsel Clement did get an opportunity for rebuttal at the end.

He made the point that because of Chevron, members of congress who want to achieve something controversial, which they know would not pass the house and senate, would purposefully make a law ambiguous. Then, they would lean on a sympathetic president to push the agency under their control, to write a clarifying regulation the way that they wanted to pass the law, but couldn’t.

So he feels that overturning Chevron is necessary to shut this shit down.


And overturn it, they did.

2024 Supreme Court of the United States

In a 6:3 partisan split, where Justices Sotomayor, Kagan, and Jackson dissented, SCOTUS sided with Loper Bright, and while doing so, rebuked the Chevron deference.

The majority’s opinion is pragmatic, in my opinion. We’ve covered the political arguments over this case fairly well, and the courts reiterated them.

They agree, that expert opinions, on areas where expertise is warranted, should be considered, and accepted, if they are reasonable interpretations, they don’t violate any constitutional principles, and it seems fair that the statute used to create that agency, give them the power to make such a regulation.

So the left’s argument that the courts are looking to overrule experts in areas that they don’t have expertise, is hyperbolic nonsense, usually reserved for assholes in congress, not the Supreme Court.

So as an example, if congress writes a law asking the EPA to regulate the air in such a way as to ensure healthy air to breathe for humans, and then the EPA writes a regulation saying the air should have no more than 100 parts per million (PPM) of some harmful pollutant, because studies have shown, that more than 100PPM is when it becomes statistically significant to human health, the courts will and should recognize the court is out of it’s bailiwick, and not try to answer that question better.

If the regulation in question however, seems more about statutory interpretation, then the courts can and should consider how they’d interpret it, and if they feel their interpretation is better, they should have no qualms smacking down the regulatory agency.

For example, if congress passes a statute asking the EPA to regulate the air quality, and the EPAs response is to enact some political scheme that bans fossil fuels, that may be a problem. The courts should consider that as a major question, and decide whether that’s an agency’s expertise, or a political question for congress to decide with the consent of the people.

Because, it’s possible fossil fuels could have a place in the market, along side cleaner energy, and banning them completely isn’t really science at all, but a political ideology being put into play.

Hear oral arguments, read about the case, and the opinion here at Oyez.com

Here is another great video from Yale law professor Jed Rubenfeld, explaining it more professionally, than yours truly.

While professor Rubenfeld seems to take an unbiased approach to these issues, here is another, less than unbiased interpretation from Legal Eagle.

Average Joe SCOTUS: Trump v. United States

Some of you may remember, we recently had a president named Donald J. Trump. It was in the news, actually.

Donald Trump (R)
Donald Trump

Anyway, after four years in office, he was such a good president, that despite being an incumbent, and having the advantages that come with that, he lost to a senile old man who loses his train of thought like I lose my car keys.

It’s worth noting that he won the election when he wasn’t president, against Satan herself, when he had no power at all. But then, when he was in power, he lost to Captain Dementia, and somehow claimed the election was rigged. Again, he was in fucking power when he lost. If it was to be rigged, he was the one to rig it! It’s like he’s never even heard of Vladimir Putin.

Anyway, after he clearly lost, he decided to go on a spree of videos and Twitter posts claiming the election was stolen—stirring up a shitstorm among his loyal voters.

A few of these fine upstanding assholes even decided to invade congress and take an unguided tour outside of visiting hours. It didn’t go well.

After the peaceful protests became less than peaceful, to his credit, Trump did tell his merry band of miscreants to go home, lending some level of credence to the idea that he wasn’t actually asking for violence. So I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, that he was seeking some sort of non-violent resolution to his loss that could still keep him in power.

It didn’t work. We got the Inappropriate-Hair-Sniffer-In-Chief.

Trump also tried to fire his Attorney General William Barr if he didn’t try to overturn the election. He tried to get Pence to not certify the election. He called states and tried to get them to submit false electoral votes in his favor. He was a fucking trainwreck, ya’ll.

Anyway, because some believe Trump broke a few fucking laws here, he’s been charged with as much. However, Trump claims that as president, which he was when some of these issues happened, he’s immune from prosecution for anything he does in office.

As you can imagine, prosecutors would love to have at the orange tyrant. But many have put those trials on hold until SCOTUS determine what immunity he is entitled to, if any.

Because this case is a landmark of landmark cases, this question was fast-tracked by SCOTUS. They presumably understood this may need resolved quickly since there’s another election coming up.

Now…on to the arguments!

Opening for Trump, counsel D. John Sauer, with the sultry voice of a diseased chicken (Listen to it and tell me I’m wrong), started with this rather ambitious statement. “Without presidential immunity from criminal prosecution, there can be no presidency as we know it.”

Counsel D. John Sauer

He went on to point out that no president has ever been tried for criminal acts. Not sure where he learned debating, but that could just mean, no president committed a serious crime while in office, that was deemed worth prosecuting.

Also, this statement has a little asterisk next to it, as Nixon almost assuredly would have been, had he not resigned. Plus, Reagan may have been for the Iran Contra-Affair, but it became obvious after he left office, his senility was so great, he could not fairly assist in his own defense.

Trump’s reason for this, is somehow the same as cops use for qualified immunity. “If you do this, no one will want to be president, because when it comes time to react to a tough situation in the moment, they’ll be too afraid to pull the trigger.”

This of course, is overcome by the fact that no previous presidents had these qualms.

Saddam Hussein

He went on to point out that Bush could have been tried for lying about WMDs in Iraq.

I’ve covered this before. It’s not a lie if he believed it at the time. And Saddam Hussein violated his surrender agreement 16 fucking times before we re-invaded to legally enforce it. Bush was pretty fucking restrained, all things considered.

Counsel Sauer also pointed out that Obama could be tried for murder as a result of drone strikes that killed American citizen Anwar Al Awlaki.

Pretty creative, but acts of war are bestowed upon the president, if they can fairly claim they’re defending the country or its allies. Rioting within the US to overturn an election, even if you’re delusional enough to think you won, isn’t a power bestowed upon the president by our Constitution. I don’t think this argument goes very far.

Associate Justice Clarence Thomas

He wrapped up his opening argument that “prosecuting presidents for official acts” is the supposed crime.

I’m not sure what the president is accused of is somehow an official act, but hey. Go for it, bud.

Justice Thomas, who arguably seems to favor Trump, was first to ask questions. He was like, “Where the fuck does it say the president can do this shit while in office?”

Sauer argued that it comes from the constitution’s executive vesting clause. Here’s the text. Feel free to point out where you see the president is immune.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Article II

Article II Explained

Section 1

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:– I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

Section 2

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

Section 3

He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.

Section 4

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

______________________________________________________________________________

Sauer also claimed that somehow the Marbury v. Madison‘s precedent suggests that the president is immune, since then Chief Justice John Marshall basically allowed the new president Thomas Jefferson (Marshall’s cousin, whom he did not get along with) to withhold a judicial appointment of Justice Marbury, legally commissioned by the previous president John Adams, who Jefferson also disliked.

I guess he thinks Marshall said in this opinion, the president can do whatever they fuck they want in office, as long as it’s official. I don’t recall that part.

Justice Thomas, seeming somewhat skeptical, asked, “If we accept your argument that official acts are where the immunity lies, how the fuck do we determine what an official act is?”

Counsel Sauer pointed to an older case, Nixon v. Fitzgerald, where the court ruled that immunity applied to the “outer perimeter” of his duties. Which basically meant, anything related to his job—a much broader set of duties than something more narrow, like the president’s duties enumerated in the constitution.

Chief Justice Roberts was like, “What if the president appoints someone to an official position after that person or someone else bribed him to get the fucking job. That’s an official act, and it’s a fucking crime. We’re just supposed to sit back and take that shit?”

Chief Justice John Roberts

But as always, it’s the chief, and he did it with a smile.

Counsels response was that “bribery is not an official act.”

Counsel seemingly leaving the door open to the idea that the president is prosecutable for bribery, because that’s a separate act from the appointment.

Counsel didn’t say this, but I assume it plays out that the president would be impeached and prosecuted for accepting a bribe, and the appointee would then be impeached because they were nominated as the result of a bribe.

So while the crux of Trump’s argument is that he has full immunity, counsel Sauer seems to be more tempered in his argument, that it’s just full immunity for official acts. He is likely trying to ensure that he’s not making some overarching case that the president is above the law, which is certainly pretty smart if he’s to win this shit.

Chief Roberts followed up with asking, “bribery isn’t official, but the appointment is. So what do we do with that shit?”

Sauer suggested they defer to the courts to parse out what’s official and what’s not, then prosecute from there, any unofficial acts that are crimes.

Justice Sotomayor, launched a technique that’s rather common in science, and with SCOTUS—think in extremes to test the position.

Official Portrait of United States Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor Click for Biography

She asked, “can the president have the military assassinate their electoral rival if they think the person is somehow a threat or corrupt?”

This mother fucker actually responded, “it depends on the hypothetical, but that could well be an official act.”

Are you fucking kidding right now? That’s his response? He could have done so much better on this. I’m guessing he was leaving an opportunity open for a situation where it could be shown the rival was a traitor and had committed some heinous act against the United States, but otherwise no, that’d be murder. He fumbled this one, in my opinion.

Justice Sotomayor points out that in counsel’s examples for Bush and Obama, they did what they did to protect the country, not for personal gain. Trump however, is trying to stay in office when everyone else is telling him he lost, which is for personal gain.

I agree with her, but this is the easiest question for him to answer so far, because he could just say Trump felt he was protecting America by trying to prevent Biden from taking over as president, when he may have truly believed Biden lost.

She pointed out that the framers actually discussed granting immunity to the president, but they never actually put it in the constitution, suggesting that he/she does not have that power. It’s actually a pretty great point from her.

Justice Kentanji Brown Jackson was next to chime in. She first established what counsel Sauer wants, which is absolute immunity. He agreed.

Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson

She then clarified, that in the past, when they grant absolute immunity, it’s in the context of official acts. He also agreed.

So then she asked, so the real question here, if we accept your stupid fucking argument is whether these things he’s being prosecuted for are official acts, right?

He responded that it was an important determination…to which Justice Jackson was like, “mother fucker, it’s THE determination and you know it!”

She then asked, if the president is using the office for personal gain, then by definition, that’s not for the benefit of the fucking United States, is it? Therefore, not an official act. Therefore, you’re talking shit. Therefore, checkmate, bitch.

Counsel Sauer, again was tongue-tied. He tacitly agreed, but then pointed out, that in the Nixon v Fitzgerald case, they didn’t want to allow the courts to assess the president’s state of mind. The business of proving someone’s motives is fraught with issues.

They just wanted to judge the acts on their merits. So if a plausible case could be made that a president does something for the betterment of the country, then BOOM, immunity—otherwise, no immunity. Prosecutors don’t have the need or leeway to prove an additional mens rea element.

She then went on to argue that every fucking president before Trump operated under the premise that they could be prosecuted after they left office, which is laid out in the impeachment process. So what he’s asking for is not the status quo, but for them to somehow infer some new power, granted to the president, that wasn’t accepted before.

Counsel Sauer’s retort was about how Benjamin Franklin once pointed out that “History furnishes one example only of a first Magistrate being formally brought to public Justice. And the people cried out against this.” He was referring to Charles I who was removed and executed.

Colorful argument. Stupid, since again, this didn’t make it into the constitution, but colorful.

Justice Neil “Golden Voice” Gorsuch was next to jump in. He was like, “We all agree, once the prez leaves office, they can be charged with a crime for their personal conduct (not official), yeah?”

Associate Justice Neil Gorsuch

Counsel Sauer agreed.

He asked about a previous circuit course case called Blassingame v. Trump, and the test they provided for separating official vs. private acts, but didn’t elaborate, presumably making sure counsel Sauer was also aware of this case and understood the test.

Counsel Sauer seemed to side with the opinion of Justice Katsas from that case.

My own cursory and amateur pass at the opinion of this case from Katsas is that they argued that if the president were at a campaign rally, or some other shit that was clearly not the work of the people, immunity isn’t attached. But that if they were in office, or doing the work of the people, and during that time, just happened to say some political shit to help their election, such as jabs at their opponent during a state of the union address, then immunity would apply.

Justice Amy Coney Barrett began rattling off things Trump has been accused of, where he had private conversations with his lawyers and shit, asking if those things were private or official.

Associate Justice Amy Coney Barrett

Counsel agreed they were private, and attempted to distinguishing the things he felt his client did officially, which is meeting with the DOJ to determine who’ll be the acting attorney general, communicating with the public, and congress. I wonder if telling them they should “fight like hell” was deemed official by counsel Sauer, because that’s kinda why he’s here?

Sauer, addressing Justice Roberts, suggested that he felt many of the things in the indictment were official acts, and he agreed some may be private.

So he essentially wanted SCOTUS to parse that shit out, removing all official acts from the indictment, and only letting Trump be charged with things that were un-official acts. Presumably feeling the unofficial stuff, in their opinion, weren’t that serious, or were more easily defeated if they go back to court.

Justice Roberts, seeming perplexed by his arguments was like, “if appointing a justice is an official act, but bribing the president to appoint that justice isn’t, how the fuck do we prosecute the president for taking a bribe to appoint a justice? Giving someone money is perfectly legal. Appointing the justice is the official act, and perfectly legal. It’s giving someone money to appoint a justice that’s the fucking problem. If you have us remove the “appointing a justice” part, it’s just giving someone money, and that’s AOK. See the fucking problem here, dipshit?

His response was…well…incoherent to me. I’ll let you be the judge:

In this particular indictment, where we say virtually all the overt conduct is official, we don’t believe it would be able to go forward.

I mean, there could be a case where it would, but if you look at—even the government’s brief in this case divides up the indictment into things that, other than the electors allegations, don’t really—are—they haven’t disputed that they are official acts.

But what they do is say, well, we tie it all together by characterizing it as done, and these are the allegations that the Court just referred to, by an improper private aim or private end.

Again, that’s their words.

And that just runs loggerheads, you know, dead-set against this Court’s case law saying you don’t look at with immunity determinations the—the—the motive—improper motivation or purpose.

I’m not saying Sauer was drunk, but that response felt like someone should have requested a breathalyzer.

Justice Kagan, having none of this shit, was like…

Does it strike you as odd that your understanding of immunity goes way beyond what the Office of Legal Counsel has ever claimed for the former president?

Associate Justice Elena Kagan

He responded by saying that any time a congressional statute seemed to indict a president, they went out of their way to avoid that.

As usual, he didn’t answer the question, and Kagan wasn’t interested in letting that slide.

She then asked, what if the president sold nuclear secrets to enemies?

His answer was that he couldn’t just be tried. He’d have to be impeached, then tried in the senate, and only after a conviction there, could he be tried in criminal court.

I know it seems like I’m mentioning they asked him a bunch of hypotheticals, because they did. Like, there were hypotheticals falling out the court’s asshole.

She went on to ask, what if the president got the military to stage a coup. Clever what she did there, because it wasn’t the military, but that’s kinda the argument as to what he did, right?

He had the same response as before, but Kagan wasn’t done. She was like, but in this case, the president is out of office now, so impeaching him and convicting him in congress is off the table. So he just gets away with it?

I don’t think I’ve ever heard any counsel arguing before SCOTUS struggle to find his words and a coherent argument more than Sauer at this point.

To be fair, he may just be a fine attorney in an unenviable position. But again, Trump has a history of two things:

  • Firing good attorneys who give him good advice, but said advice just happens to be not what Trump wants to hear
  • Good attorneys firing Trump as a client because he’s often batshit crazy, from a legal perspective, and asks them to do dumb shit they don’t want to do, for sake of their reputation and law license.

Kagan, like a cat playing with a mouse, finally dropped the hammer. She was like, “the fucking framers didn’t put an immunity clause into the constitution. They weren’t fucking idiots—they certainly knew how to. They just didn’t. Why? Because they didn’t want assholes like your client to become unremovable tyrants. You fucking know this, yeah?”

Again, he attempted to argue the vesting clause above, somehow was understood to provide immunity. But as Trump himself is famous for saying…

His argument was again, that the path to prosecute the president is impeachment, not a trial in criminal court, which is why they created such a process.

Justice Gorsuch posed the question about Trump potentially pardoning himself. He pointed out that the court has thankfully never had to address such a question. Counsel Sauer agreed, and admitted he didn’t have an argument for that either.

Sauer then reiterated the idea that that the president will be afraid to do anything, if they know future congress could pass a law making their acts illegal, and then prosecute them accordingly.

I’m gonna add an editorial here—this argument is fucking nonsense. The president is aware of current laws, and therefore should know not to break them. If a future congress passes future laws to make an act criminal, those laws cannot be retroactive.

You can’t prosecute someone for a law that didn’t exist when they committed the act, because people can’t predict the future. So while this is seemingly a decent argument, it’s my opinion that this argument assumes everyone else is an idiot, and doesn’t understand what I just pointed out.

Trump Impeachment Vote

It’s also worth noting, his position that the impeachment process must be performed to convict a president is really just a way to say, as long as the president’s party controls one of two houses, he’s unlikely to ever be prosecuted, as opposed to a criminal court which would typically weed out such partisanship in the jury selection process.

Justice Barrett chimed in and asked, “Us nine assholes in a robe are also subject to the same impeachment rules as the president. No one has suggested the laws don’t apply to us, have they? Are we afforded that same luxury?”

He disagreed. He argued this only applies to the president, again citing the framers and the constitution without offering an ounce of language to support this argument.

Justice Barrett then hit him with the ole, “What if the crime wasn’t discovered until after they leave office, removing the impeachment process from the equation? They just skip Jail, hit Go, and collect $200?”

His response was that the framers just assumed that risk.

It’s my observation, he assumes a lot with very little evidence.

Justice Barrett also hit him with, “You say the president is exempt from these criminal statutes, except for a couple. So how is he to be convicted after the impeachment process, if he’s exempted as you argue?”

Associate Justice Amy Coney Barrett

She went on to ask, “Giving the example of the president arranging a coup, even if the president were impeached and convicted in the senate, he still couldn’t be convicted in criminal court, unless congress specifically mentioned the president in the law—that somehow he’s presumed exempt.”

Counsel agreed. Let me say that again…counsel AGREED. He didn’t excuse it away, he basically said, unless the congress specifically writes a law that says the president is a criminal if they do this thing, it’s assumed the president cannot be criminally prosecuted for any other crime.

Again, this is fucking crazy, y’all.

Justice Jackson asked, “We know the fucking president, as a matter of fact, has the best lawyers in the world at their disposal. So why the fuck, would the framers give that person immunity, when others do not get it. Seems kinda silly, yeah?”

Counsel Sauer was like, “You’re talking shit. The president must follow the law. Our argument is that you assholes in robes don’t hold them accountable in criminal court, congress does via impeachment.”

She was like, “Maybe I spoke French and you didn’t understand. So let me repeat the question, dipshit. Others, like us, other appointees, and elected officials, don’t have the legal protections the president does. Why? Why can we go to jail, but the president alone is only prosecutable in congress?”

Counsel Sauer responded by citing Nixon v. Fitzgerald again, where it was determined the president can’t be sued. But, that’s fucking civil court—not criminal.

Justice Jackson was like, “Dude, we ruled that way, because we know every Tom, Dick, and Harry would sue the president if they could, and he’d spend his whole life in civil court. But criminal convictions are done by the government, and therefore, that risk isn’t nearly the same. Are you kidding me with this shit?”

Associate Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson

His argument was that the president is held liable by the people who choose not to reelect him (which is ironic), or the congress which can impeach and convict him.

Honestly, there’s no way Sauer needed over an hour to argue. He basically had three songs he sang over and over again. He could have wrapped in ten minutes.

Justice Brown, with her own editorial was like, “Can you imagine someone being elected president, knowing that they’ll be the most powerful person in the world, and then on top of that shit, you tell them they’re immune from any criminal prosecution? That sounds like a recipe for tyranicism. So what disincentivizes the president from becoming such a tyrant in your argument?”

She went on to argue, “You’re asking us to take criminal prosecution off the table, and therefore creating incentives for all future presidents to be career criminals.”

Justice Jackson, then wrapped with, “If congress decides a future action should be criminal, why the fuck do they have to specify it’s criminal if the president does it, too? Do you really expect us to buy that shit? That’s crazy talk.”

And mercifully with that, counsel Sauer’s time in the hotseat was over.

For the United States, counsel Michael Dreeben.

Michael Dreeben

He basically opened with, “My friend on the other side is a fucking idiot. The constitution doesn’t grant immunity for the president anywhere in the text.

If we’re to believe this idiot, the president could ass rape Mitch McConnell on the White House lawn, then shoot him for not lubing up first, and basically not worry about it.

Our founders knew too well about the abuses of a tyrant. No fucking way they give that power to a president.”

Justice Thomas, as usual, was the first with questions. He asked, “Are you saying there’s no presidential immunity whatsoever? Not even for official acts?”

Justice Thomas referred to Operation Mongoose, which was a Kennedy plan to kill Castro in Cuba. “Why wasn’t that prosecuted?” he asked.

He responded that the reason there were no prosecutions, was because there were no crimes.

Woah! I’m kinda on his side, but that seems like a statement that requires balls the size of Texas. But nonetheless, he has my attention.

He points out that in the example Justice Thomas gave, that doesn’t mean that the president can’t commit murder, but that the constitution gives the president the power to command the military to eliminate threats to the United States, in this case, Fidel Castro, but in Obama’s case, generic terrorists.

Justice Alito jumped into the fray, asking counsel Dreeben, why is your opponent’s argument that the president must go through the impeachment process before they can be criminally prosecuted a bad system?

Associate Justice Samuel Alito

Counsel Dreeben was like, “I don’t know if you noticed this, but congress is a bunch of whiny ass political hacks. If the president’s party is in power, then he/she will NEVER get impeached. Or do you not recall Clinton and Trump’s impeachments being thwarted by their respective parties.

Criminal acts shouldn’t be subjected to the political whims of the political parties in charge at the time, it should be up to the criminal courts.

You’re a fucking judge, why would you not see your people are better equipped, and more fair, at handling such things, than those contemptuous zealots in congress? Give me a fucking break, with this question.”

Justices Kavanaugh, Alito, and Gorsuch all seemed to want to understand that with the checks and balances clearly enshrined into our constitution, are there presidential acts that congress may not criminalize.

Meaning, is the president protected from a congress, who simply doesn’t like what the president is doing, all of a sudden, making presidential acts a crime, so they can remove a sitting president they just don’t like?

Counsel Dreeben was like, “No dawg. If the constitution bestows powers onto the executive, congress can’t just criminalize them. It would have to amend the constitution. Surely you know this, yo?”

With that agreement, then Gorsuch was like, “OK, we agree that there are some things that are off limits for congress to do to the president, now we simply have to draw a line as to what congress may or may not do, to criminalize actions a president might take.”

Associate Justice Neil Gorsuch

An example Justice Gorsuch gave was, what if the president arranged a peaceful sit-in at Congress—protesting some legislation they seemed poised to pass—and this sit-in preventing congress from moving forward with their legislative duties, could congress criminalize that?

This is clearly a reference to what happened when President Trump organized rallies to protest Biden’s win, although it eventually was not so peaceful.

Counsel Dreeben’s response was basically, “If it’s not outlined as a power the president is constitutionally enshrined with, it’s complicated.”

After covering powers that he’s granted by the constitution, then past areas where congress may specifically prevent the president from doing something, the answer becomes, is the president subject to criminal law in general. Gorsuch, seemed to agree, that was the heart of the question, which counsel believes they are.

Justice Sotomayor asked:

If he’s not covered by the criminal law, he can’t be impeached for it.

She elaborated on her question by asking if the president is subject to the criminal code, except when somehow a criminal code would criminalize the president’s actions that the constitution grants them.

Dreeben agreed.

She then asked, “is it not mandated that the president faithfully execute the laws, and therefore violating them would be a direct violation of their duty to violate any code they swore to protect?

Dreeben was like, “You’re speaking my love language, mama!”

I think the heart of Sotomayor’s question is that if the president has immunity, then how can they be impeached for “high crimes and misdemeanors” if they’re immune from them? Seems like some weird circular logic to me.

Official Portrait of United States Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor Click for Biography

Justice Alito had heard enough of this shit, though. He was like, “The fucking president has to make a lot of tough decision to protect the United States from harm. Isn’t it fair to say on occasion, it might mean breaking a few stupid fucking laws? Like, the president makes one fucking mistake, trying to keep us safe, and you’re going to land their ass in jail?”

Counsel Dreeben, having enough of Alito’s shit, was like, “Mistakes won’t land a fucking president in prison, you ignorant fuck.”

He also pointed out, that the president has no role in certifying their own election. The VP does. So anything a president does to interfere with the election, is not a constitutionally protected action—it’s not in his fucking job description.

Justice Alito, apparently trying to figure out why Trump is the first idiot to be indicted for a crime while he was president asked, “What about Roosevelt throwing Japanese Americans in concentration camps? Could that be something the president could be charged for—violating American’s rights?”

Counsel Dreeben was like, “By today’s standards, hell yes.”

He then went on to add some nuance, part of which was that White House counsel at the time would have fucking told him he was allowed to do that under presidential powers of war, which gives the president some level of innocence.

So Alito asked, “you’re telling me, if his lawyers are like, ‘you’re good dog’, that this ineffective (ignorant) assistance of counsel would exonerate the president from wrongdoing?

Associate Justice Samuel Alito

Dreeben agreed that he felt it would. Presumably the president is not a lawyer. Certainly not in Trump’s case. So if the AG and other top government lawyers give him legal advice, and he follows it, that seems unfair to come after them later—they thought they were following the fucking law.

He brought up a legal principle he called entrapment by estoppel. This is not just about the president, it applies to anyone. If a government official, in this case, Trump’s lawyer, tells you that you may do something, and you then do it, they can’t come later and arrest you for it. That’s fucked up!

Imagine a cop says, “sure, smoke that joint, your fine.” So you do. Then he nabs you and charges you for smoking a joint. I think we can all understand why this is wrong.

So if the Attorney General tells the president, “Hey man, you’re within the law to do this,” it would be wrong for the same reason, for someone to then arrest the president for doing it.

Justice Alito then asked, “but what if the president just picks some random fucking idiot as their AG, and this person is literally hired to be a “yes man?”

But again, Dreeben had an answer for that. “He’s like, again with stupid questions. The president nominates, but the congress approves this person. So such an idiot should never make it to being AG.

Justice Alito then asked the question Gorsuch asked of Sauer earlier, “Can the president pardon him/herself?”

Biden Pardoning President Trump

Counsel Dreeben responded, “we’ve never chimed in on that, and the constitution doesn’t answer it. Probably because we never had any half-wit president consider it before now. So he also had no argument on this one. Plus, to be fair, Trump never said he’d do it, and even tacitly rejected the idea.

Alito then hit Dreeben, who works for the DOJ, with the left hook. “Don’t we need to know your position, as a representative for the DOJ on this? I mean, if you have no position against it, can’t the president just pardon themselves for every imaginable crime on the way out the door?”

It’s worth noting here, the presidential pardon power is for federal crimes only. Not state and local ones. If someone is charged by a state, then the governor of that state is who may pardon them.

Counsel Dreeben was like, “I would assume that the bedrock principle in our laws, that no person shall be the judge in their own case, applies here, and therefore the president may not pardon themselves.”

Justice Kagan asked, “What should we do here? Is it within our power to decide if the president may pardon themselves, if they may commit crimes in office, etc.?” Are we not potentially stepping on the power of congress and the president”

Associate Justice Elena Kagan

Counsel Dreeben agreed that there was plenty of precedent that the courts could indeed draw these distinctions, as they do with any other constitutional questions.

In response to Justice Gorsuch, asking about the distinction in this case, between office seeker, which isn’t protected, and office holder, which is, counsel Dreeben stated that when Trump is on the phone saying he needed them to find 11,000 votes, that’s quite obviously an office seeker, and therefore not protected.

Justice Kavanaugh, almost assuredly referring to New York AG Alvin Bragg, who campaigned on the idea he’d get Trump on criminal charges, asked about the corruption concern of opposing parties picking someone they don’t like, and just looking for a crime to hang on them. This is opposed to what should happen, where there’s evidence of a crime first, then an investigation, which potentially then leads to the person in question.

Counsel Dreeben pointed out that during Iran-Contra, the judge looking at the issue, reviewed the evidence and dismissed the criminal complaint. His suggestion being, that the justice system does have some effective checks to ensure an ambitious prosecutor can’t just go on a political witch hunt, and succeed.

Justice Kavanaugh gave another hypothetical, that what if President Johnson had purposefully lied to the American people about Vietnam, in order to achieve political goals there. Could he have been prosecuted for that?

Counsel Dreeben’s response was a healthy respect for the first amendment, that we don’t prosecute speech. We prosecute illegal actions.

Kavanaugh then asked, “What about Johnson pardoning Nixon?”

Dreebon’s response, “That’s a presidential action granted by the constitution. Soooo…”

Kavanaugh then asked about Obama’s drone strokes which killed Anwar Al Awlaki.

Dreeben responded that the DOJ reviewed this and felt it was not an unlawful killing and chose not to prosecute. Suggesting that the system worked to protect the president when he was acting to protect the country.

Truthfully, seems like kind of a dodged question. He didn’t really explain why Obama was deemed to be within his right as president to deny a citizen due process before killing them. But I think he ultimately was relying on the “entrapment by estoppel” argument mentioned earlier, pointing out that White House advisors gave Obama the go-ahead to nuke that terrorist cunt.

In a long series of question, Justice Jackson asked if Dreeben felt there were any acts Trump is accused of, they he feels falls under official acts, and therefore are immune from prosecution.

Dreeben was like, “No. We agree official acts aren’t prosecutable. So we wouldn’t have sought prosecution if we thought for a minute, they were official acts. It’s our position, he did this entirely for personal gain, to take control of an election his dumb ass clearly lost, and he damn well knows it.”

Associate Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson

Without a question in sight, Justice Jackson went on to make a political statement that she thinks Trump’s argument that allowing these prosecutions to go through, would chill all presidents in the future, when they’re faced with a tough action, while valid, is no less valid than the concerns of a president who’s entirely immune from prosecution, going on a criminal bender like they’re both Thelma and Louise.

This case has made my head spin. It’s a pretty crazy thing.

While I always listen to the oral arguments, I rarely read the full opinion of the court. That shit is long, full of legal mumbo-jumbo (mostly citations, actually), and boring. A synopsis is usually good enough for me to opine. But for this one, I actually did read that shit.

Here it is (Click the link), as delivered by the chief himself, Justice Roberts.

Supreme Court of the United States Chief Justice John Roberts

There is a LOT of fucking nuance, and if people have strong opinions about this case, they should shut the fuck up until they’ve actually read the opinion.

Because I think it largely stands on it’s own. Here’s the last few paragraphs of the opinion, if you don’t want to read the whole thing. I think it’s a pretty good summary. I’ve removed the citations below in all the actual quotes to make it easier to read.

This case poses a question of lasting significance: When may a former President be prosecuted for official acts taken during his Presidency?

Our Nation has never before needed an answer. But in addressing that question today, unlike the political branches and the public at large, we cannot afford to fixate exclusively, or even primarily, on present exigencies. In a case like this one, focusing on “transient results” may have profound consequences for the separation of powers and for the future of our Republic.

Our perspective must be more farsighted, for “[t]he peculiar circumstances of the moment may render a measure more or less wise, but cannot render it more or less constitutional.”

Our first President had such a perspective. In his Farewell Address, George Washington reminded the Nation that “a Government of as much vigour as is consistent with the perfect security of Liberty is indispensable.” A government “too feeble to withstand the enterprises of faction,” he warned, could lead to the “frightful despotism” of “alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge.” And the way to avoid that cycle, he explained, was to ensure that government powers remained “properly distributed and adjusted.”

It is these enduring principles that guide our decision in this case. The President enjoys no immunity for his unofficial acts, and not everything the President does is official. The President is not above the law. But Congress may not criminalize the President’s conduct in carrying out the responsibilities of the Executive Branch under the Constitution. And the system of separated powers designed by the Framers has always demanded an energetic, independent Executive. The President therefore may not be prosecuted for exercising his core constitutional powers, and he is entitled, at a minimum, to a presumptive immunity from prosecution for all his official acts. That immunity applies equally to all occupants of the Oval Office, regardless of politics, policy, or party.

The judgment of the Court of Appeals for the D. C. Circuit is vacated, and the case is remanded for further proceedings consistent with this opinion.

It is so ordered.

Anyway, here’s my analysis of the whole opinion. I know, this is new for me, but let’s give it a whirl.

*takes deep breath in*

Trump largely won.

SCOTUS separated actions by a president into four categories, and then outlined what actions, if any could be taken against the president related to them:

  • Powers or duties enumerated by the constitution – Absolute immunity
  • Powers or duties granted by congress – Presumptive immunity
  • Powers or duties assumed by the people – Presumptive immunity
  • Unofficial acts (everything else) – No immunity

First, constitutional powers: the basic principle is that powers the president is granted by the constitution are the supreme law of the land. Don’t like it? Amend the fucking constitution.

The president has the discretion on how to achieve these goals, and can’t be prosecuted for doing them, even if some law says that act is illegal. Why? Because laws don’t have more power than the constitution, they have less.

Some on social media, and even the dissent, are showing some level of hyperbole by saying Trump could have ordered the military to kill Biden while in office, to eliminate the threat of losing the election, and that would be OK.

In my humble opinion, that is not what the opinion says. Also, remember when Justice Roberts asked Trump’s counsel Sauer about bribing the president to get an appointment and his response was, “a bribe isn’t an official act?”

Clearly, even Trump’s attorney understood that there is a distinction between something criminal and something official, and that one can lead to the other, but it doesn’t mean they’re entirely enjoined as an official act.

The majority stated that the constitution lays out what the president’s duties are, and if the president does them how they see fit, the president is “absolutely” immune from congress or the courts trying to remove that power from them, or prosecute them from doing them. It’s a separation-of-powers joint. Absolute just means, it can never ever happen, and no takesy backsies.

2024 Supreme Court of the United States

Here’s the snippet from the opinion addressing this:

We conclude that under our constitutional structure of separated powers, the nature of Presidential power requires that a former President have some immunity from criminal prosecution for official acts during his tenure in office. At least with respect to the President’s exercise of his core constitutional powers, this immunity must be absolute.

For instance, the president has an enumerated power to pardon federal criminals. Congress cannot at some point decide that the person the president pardoned, somehow makes that pardon a crime. That power is absolute, and congress can’t fuck with it.

The gave the example of when Lincoln pardoned confederate soldiers. Congress at the time didn’t agree and tried to pass a law preventing the president from doing it. SCOTUS at the time struck that shit down, because of the reasons current SCOTUS is citing now—the president’s power to pardon is a constitutional one which congress cannot remove or modify by law—only a constitutional amendment can change that. Make sense?

Chris Goldstein receives pardon from President Biden for marijuana protests.

From there, we move on to congressional acts giving the president powers and duties.

They ruled that the president has “presumptive” immunity on official acts, that are not enumerated in the constitution.

For instance, congress creates agencies, which then are headed by someone appointed by, and answering to, the president. So in this situation, congress is giving the president a new power.

The courts argue that congress should let the president carry out those duties however the president sees fit. If they don’t like it, amend the fucking law, which SCOTUS agrees is perfectly acceptable.

I believe their concern is with congress trying to retroactively prosecute a president they don’t like by changing laws so they can prosecute them. But they seemed to feel that they could cross that bridge when congress builds it. They just suggested that in the meantime, the president should be presumed to be immune, unless a good case can be made otherwise.

Here’s what they said on that:

As for his remaining official actions, he is also entitled to immunity. At the current stage of proceedings in this case, however, we need not and do not decide whether that immunity must be absolute, or instead whether a presumptive immunity is sufficient.

The last bit, the “outer perimeter” likely refers to acts that are assumed to be the job of the president, but aren’t specifically outlined in the constitution, or created by congress.

For instance, when Donald Trump spoke to supporters after he lost, and conveyed his lame-ass notion the election was stolen, it was arguably him conveying what he thought was necessary information for the people to know. At least, that’s what his rep Sauer said in oral arguments—talking to the people, and informing them, is part of the president’s job, even if there’s no text stating as much.

His detractors argued he was inciting people to riot, of course, which is part of why he’s here now.

I just think he was either delusional, in denial, or full of shit. I don’t think he actually wanted rioting. But I’m an optimist at heart.

Now that we’ve covered that shit, they went on to outline who can prosecute the president and when:

No matter the context, the President’s authority to act necessarily “stem[s] either from an act of Congress or from the Constitution itself.” In the latter case, the President’s authority is sometimes “conclusive and preclusive.” When the President exercises such authority, he may act even when the measures he takes are “incompatible with the expressed or implied will of Congress.” The exclusive constitutional authority of the President “disabl[es] the Congress from acting upon the subject.” And the courts have “no power to control [the President’s] discretion” when he acts pursuant to the powers invested exclusively in him by the Constitution.

If the President claims authority to act but in fact exercises mere “individual will” and “authority without law,” the courts may say so. In Youngstown, for instance, we held that President Truman exceeded his constitutional authority when he seized most of the Nation’s steel mills. But once it is determined that the President acted within the scope of his exclusive authority, his discretion in exercising such authority cannot be subject to further judicial examination.

They’ve clearly outlined the framework of how and when a president can be prosecuted. If the president commits acts that are bestowed upon them in the constitution, congress nor the courts can step on that without violating the separation of powers. So that’s a big old can of “No No.”

If the president exercises power granted to them by congress, or acts that are those understood to be something the president does, then congress may impeach him if they believe he has acted outside the laws they created.

And if it’s an unofficial act entirely, then off to court they may go.

The majority also left it open for the lower courts to decide if they’re official acts or not. If they deem they’re not official, the president could be in real fucking trouble. The “presumptive” thing just means that it is assumed the president is immune, unless they can make a good case why they’re not—establishing a baseline that starts from immunity.

The majority even pointed out that with Nixon and Jefferson, the courts established that a president can be subpoenaed, and compelled to turn over evidence, just as any other citizen may be forced to do. The only narrow exception was if those bits of evidence, if made public, could be a danger to the country or its people.

Former President Richard Nixon

They agreed with Sauers overarching theme, that if the president doesn’t enjoy this immunity structure they’ve laid out, then the president will be “chilled” as they put it, from acting in a way they think is best, if they’re worried about going to jail for it later.

I see their point, but frankly, that bit concerns me, as it seems to be an open door for criminal actors who may become president, to more easily commit crimes, if they can frame it as an official act, well enough.

The majority however, hammered it home by saying:

We must, however, “recognize the countervailing interests at stake.” Federal criminal laws seek to redress “a wrong to the public” as a whole, not just “a wrong to the individual.” There is therefore a compelling “public interest in fair and effective law enforcement.” The President, charged with enforcing federal criminal laws, is not above them.

They then elaborated on how they felt that should be restrained, while still describing when the door is open for the president to be prosecuted:

At a minimum, the President must therefore be immune from prosecution for an official act unless the Government can show that applying a criminal prohibition to that act would pose no “dangers of intrusion on the authority and functions of the Executive Branch.”

They next went on to explain why they kicked the question of what’s official and not official to the lower courts.

The White House

They basically said, none of these assholes in front of us bothered to argue what’s official and what’s not in their briefs for us to consider. Nor did the lower courts who decided these cases that led these assholes here. So we’re not doing that fucking work for you, you lazy pricks. We’re the court who settles your arguments. We don’t make the arguments ourselves.

They then went on to say that the president’s motives for official conduct are off limits. Meaning, if it’s official conduct, it’s official. You don’t get to drag his ass off to court because you don’t like the motives you assume he had while doing it. Not to mention proving someone’s mental state is pretty fucking hard.

They didn’t give an example, but I’ll fucking try. Why not?

The president appoints justices to the supreme court. Imagine a male president appoints some ultra-hot female Instagram influencer. Congress doesn’t get to come in and make that illegal because they believe he only did it to get laid. He has the power, and he did it how he saw fit. His motive can’t be the basis of it being criminal. Make sense? Good.

All of that speaks to their opinion on presidential powers and immunity in general.

They then went on to address the particular past president in front of them—one Donald J. Trump. So let’s dig in to his issues, and why he’s here.

They first addressed Trump threatening to fire his Attorney General William Barr if he didn’t help him overturn the election. Since the AG is answerable to the president, that is within the presidents constitutional authority, and therefore, he cannot be prosecuted for it, even if his motives were bullshit.

Second, we have Trump trying to get Pence to overturn the election by not certifying the vote.

While they acknowledge the president and VP are joined at the hip, and there are a lot of official acts between them, the VPs role is also as the president of the senate. Things the VP does in the senate, are not official acts of the president.

So, they argued presumptive immunity applies there. Meaning, let’s assume he was confiding and advising the VP as a president often does in his official role, but if the government can prove it was anything but that, and a criminal act, then by all means, the lower courts consider the merits of the arguments against him, and proceed accordingly.

Third, they covered a broad range of shit—his communications with state officials, private parties, and the public at large. Specifically, trying to get the states and republican electors, to cast fraudulent votes for Trump.

SCOTUS was like, “You didn’t provide nearly enough evidence in these cases for us to rule on it. We’re not going to provide an opinion facts not in evidence. So they basically punted that to the lower courts, and for the two sides to prepare their cases accordingly.

So no immunity granted or rescinded. Genuinely no opinion. This is for the lower courts to first decide, and we’ll see you later if it comes to that.

Fourth, his Tweets and speeches on January sixth.

Again, they punted this to the lower courts, because the evidence was incomplete. They had some Tweets but not all of them. They had portions of speeches but not the whole speech. The court refuses to opine without the full evidence.

Next, here’s where it gets a bit tricky. If the president uses his official acts to do something unofficial, his official acts cannot be part of the indictment for the unofficial act he’s being tried for.

They didn’t give examples for this, and I’m not sure I can come up with one either. But they point out, if we can use his official actions to secure a conviction on unofficial actions that are deemed criminal, then immunity means nothing.

They wrote on this:

If official conduct for which the President is immune may be scrutinized to help secure his conviction, even on charges that purport to be based only on his unofficial conduct, the “intended effect” of immunity would be defeated.

I get the argument. How can one be immune from something, but that thing still harms them? But still seems maybe a little too friendly to a potentially criminal act by a president, for my tastes.

They then moved on to Trumps much more broad immunity claims. That he can’t go to try for jack shit. That they could only prosecute him by impeachment and removal in the house and senate.

SCOTUS were having none of that shit. They were quoting the Federalist papers, previous precedents, and statements from the framers destroying that gobbledygook.

Trump also alleged that if the impeachment failed while in office, he couldn’t be tried in criminal court later. They shut that shit down as well.

They then turned to the government’s argument that he has no immunity at all. They were like, “You even fucking agreed with us at oral argument when we talked about constitutional powers being absolute. Are you fucking nuts?”

They then dropped a hammer on the idea that such prosecutions by the government against Trump, or future presidents, would be assumed to be on the merits, and not some political witch hunt. They said on this subject:

As for the Government’s assurances that prosecutors and grand juries will not permit political or baseless prosecutions from advancing in the first place, those assurances are available to every criminal defendant and fail to account for the President’s “unique position in the constitutional scheme.” We do not ordinarily decline to decide significant constitutional questions based on the Government’s promises of good faith. “We would not uphold an unconstitutional statute merely because the Government promised to use it responsibly.” Nor do we do so today.

The majority then went after the minority, who…well…let’s just say, may have played a little politics, and got a little (actually a lot) hyperbolic. It was ugly.

On the minority’s assertion that this is bullshit because there is no immunity clause, they wrote:

True, there is no “Presidential immunity clause” in the Constitution. But there is no “ ‘separation of powers clause’ ” either.

The majority frankly took the gloves off with this shit. I think Justices Sotomayor, Jackson, and Kagan probably need an IV drip after this.

Justices Sotomayor, Jackson, and Kagan (left to right)

After shitting all over some of their poorly substantiated arguments, they wrote next that:

The principal dissent’s most compelling piece of evidence consists of excerpted statements of Charles Pinckney from an 1800 Senate debate. See post, at 7. But those statements reflect only the now-discredited argument that any immunity not expressly mentioned in the Constitution must not exist. And Pinckney is not exactly a reliable authority on the separation of powers: He went on to state on the same day that “it was wrong to give the nomination of Judges to the President”—an opinion expressly rejected by the Framers. Given the Framers’ desire for an energetic and vigorous President, the principal dissent’s view that the Constitution they designed allows all his actions to be subject to prosecution—even the exercise of powers it grants exclusively to him—defies credulity.

By now, you’ve all heard that Sotomayor basically said that the court made the president above the law. Oh, boy. The majority was not pleased with that shit. They responded rather forcefully:

Coming up short on reasoning, the dissents repeatedly level variations of the accusation that the Court has rendered the President “above the law.” As before, that “rhetorically chilling” contention is “wholly unjustified.” Like everyone else, the President is subject to prosecution in his unofficial capacity. But unlike anyone else, the President is a branch of government, and the Constitution vests in him sweeping powers and duties. Accounting for that reality—and ensuring that the President may exercise those powers forcefully, as the Framers anticipated he would—does not place him above the law; it preserves the basic structure of the Constitution from which that law derives.

Justices Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, Kavanugh, and Barrett

They went on to accuse Sotomayor and Jackson of “fearmongering” (She kinda was). And they then explained why their argument is so problematic.

That without this framework, congress, courts, prosecutors, etc., can and will go after the president for every little fucking thing they can come up with, and the president will spend his whole fucking presidency dealing with that bullshit.

They’re not wrong. For a while now, we’ve endure several attempts to prosecute former presidents for things that are essentially political grandstanding and posturing, and not really trying to protect the people from real criminal acts.

Trump may well deserve a lot of this shit, but a lot of it was an absolute waste of time and taxpayer money. So I applaud this part of the opinion most. Congress is a fucking joke, and this should help reign in some of the attempts to use the legal system for political gain, when they simply don’t have the votes to win otherwise.

They then went on to complain about how the dissent wanted them to outline official acts and shit. The majority was however, like:

They have a point. The majority can’t come up with every possible scenario and create some sort of fucking legal vaccine. They have to let the parties make their arguments, lower courts can rule on them, and if they think they need to weigh in, they fucking will.

Justice Barrett, in her concurrence, felt that the majority didn’t need to kick everything to the lower courts. She agreed with the constitutional powers immunity, but on the non-constitutional issues, she felt they could have addressed them here.

Meaning, she didn’t think they needed to cover every fucking possible scenario, but they could have at least addressed the ones Trump tried to argue were official acts.

She also took issue with the ability to use official acts as evidence for prosecuting non-official acts. She wrote:

The Constitution does not require blinding juries to the circumstances surrounding conduct for which Presidents can be held liable. Consider a bribery prosecution—a charge not at issue here but one that provides a useful example. The federal bribery statute forbids any public official to seek or accept a thing of value “for or because of any official act.” The Constitution, of course, does not authorize a President to seek or accept bribes, so the Government may prosecute him if he does so. Yet excluding from trial any mention of the official act connected to the bribe would hamstring the prosecution. To make sense of charges alleging a quid pro quo, the jury must be allowed to hear about both the quid and the quo, even if the quo, standing alone, could not be a basis for the President’s criminal liability.

Associate Justice Amy Coney Barrett

As usual, she makes a pretty valid point. Barrett is no idiot.

So, despite what the minority, and every left-wing pundit says, it wasn’t that they made him above the law. They specifically said their opinion was not that.

What they did do, is lay the framework for when the president can be prosecuted and how, while also ensuring congress nor the courts, take presidential power from the executive and give it to themselves.

*exhales*

Hear oral arguments or read about the case, and the final opinions here at Oyez.

As an added bonus, watch this video from Yale Law Professor Jed Rubenfeld, from his “Straight Down the Middle” series. He provides a pretty great and fair analysis.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=H-G6mGzoZAw%3Fsi%3Dewc14WjzHpKjEe-f

Average Joe SCOTUS: Food and Drug Administration v. Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine

If you’re reading this, I’m going to assume you’re aware SCOTUS overturned the Roe v. Wade decision in 2022, returning the issue of the legality of abortions to the states. This then meant it was no longer a constitutional right, by precedent, for a woman to have an abortion. If you didn’t know that, sorry to hear you were in a coma, but glad you seem to be recovering.

As a result of that decision, this case, along with many others that address abortion rules and regulations, now became up for debate.

This particular case is about Mifepristone—a commonly drug used to induce a woman to have an abortion by breaking down progesterone in her body, which then causes the uterine wall to become detached, and the fertilized egg/fetus connected to it, to detach from the uterus. A second drug then causes contractions that flush all of that out.

It was approved, under a lot of contentious debate, by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in 2000 for this purpose, and is used in over half the abortions performed in the US.

Initially, the drug required the patient go to the hospital and be administered by a doctor, while under supervision, in case an emergency arises. The reason for this requirement was that many were concerned that there would be complications when used, that may need to be immediately treated at the emergency room. Therefore, they didn’t want it to be given outside a hospital setting.

But here’s the rub, the FDA gathered a LOT of fucking data since then, as they do, and women weren’t having any real problems taking mifepristone. As a matter of fact, it’s shown to be safer than most commonly used drugs, like Penicillin or Viagra. I’m sure there were outliers, but by and large, that shit was uneventful, other than the intended event, anyway.

As you can imagine, having to go to the hospital and then stay there while under observation, for a drug that shows almost no danger, is expensive. It clogs up hospitals, and causes excess expense to the women who choose to have an abortion, may of whom are low income, which is why they’re getting one in the first place.

So in 2016, the FDA allowed it to be prescribed by a doctor, so they could use it in the privacy of their own home. This may seem like no big deal, but have you seen an abortion clinic? It’s wall to wall asshole protestors intimidating, scaring, and even attacking both doctors and patients alike.

Hell, they’ve sometimes even opened Crisis Pregnancy Center clinics next door, making them look like they’re abortion clinics, hoping abortion seekers come to their location by accident, where they can shove god up their ass, lie to the them about the dangers of abortions, and hope they bullshit these folks into changing their mind.

So this new regulation, in the immortal words of the famous philosopher Biden, “is a big fucking deal.” It protects women and healthcare practitioners alike, by protecting medical anonymity, as they should.

Then in 2021, when COVID was fucking everything up, they also allowed it to be distributed by mail-order pharmacies after being prescribed by online doctors.

As you can imagine, anti-abortion folks were like, “Wait a fucking minute!” They were not OK.

Despite the FDA’s findings, because of their bias against abortions, they continued to hammer home the idea that it should not be given outside a hospital, for the reasons cited. Forget the fact that the evidence is against them, they’ve got God on their side. God would want them to lie and mislead people to prevent abortions, which he never mentions in the bible once.

I know I attack them unmercifully, but here at Logical Libertarian, we’re both pro-science, and anti-zealotry. So they fucking deserve it.

I concede, there are perfectly fair, valid, and ethical reasons to oppose abortion. It is inarguably a human life being ended. If folks really believe in fetal personhood, and that’s their sole argument, while I don’t agree, I can and will respect that.

But when they make misleading arguments, lie to people, or manipulate them, just for their own political gain, like the ones about risks that just aren’t there, I take issue with that. Bad science should never be tolerated.

It’s frankly far too difficult to have a fair and honest discussion about abortion in this country. I won’t rehash it here, I already wrote about this shit before. So back to the case.

In comes the Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine (AHM). Might sound like some fancy doctor group and shit, but it’s literally just a group of Christian doctors who came together, founded a political “company” which does nothing but fight abortion rights, in Amarillo Texas. It’s conveniently next to one Judge Matthew Kacsmaryk’s district, a Trump appointee who is rather pro-life. And they conveniently filed in that district, since that’s where their bullshit office is located. But no fair argument can be made that this is just some rando group of doctors, who have some actual business in Amarillo, and are bringing this case out of nowhere. This was clearly planned.

Judge Matthew Kacsmaryk

So once this judge put a hold on the drug, based on, and I shit you not, blog posts and studies that were withdrawn from medical journals for ethical and methodology reasons (meaning, they weren’t legit studies), the 5th circuit, who make our current conservative SCOTUS look like Bernie Sanders, affirmed his decision.

But then SCOTUS were like, “Whoa, cowboy. Are you guys fucking nuts? You’re making us on the right look bad with this shit!”

So they put those decisions on hold so they could decide this shit themselves, leaving mifepristone still legal again, until they handed down a decision.

Caution, political argument: If we have to mislead people to get them on our side, we’re probably on the wrong side. The majority of the American public, in poll after poll, are pro-choice under reasonable circumstances, like the ones set forth in the Roe v. Wade decision. So these pro-life groups hide behind misleading names and bullshit arguments to achieve their goals, instead of being open and honest, because they know, they’re just on the losing side of the debate.

Anyway, sorry. I was rambling…back to the case.

AHM decided they’d sue the FDA, and argue the safety issues, which the FDA already overcame, and hope they could convince nine justices to forget all about that science shit, by claiming more research was needed. It isn’t.

So there were a few questions before the court.

First: does AHM even have standing? You’ll hear this “standing” thing a lot in SCOTUS cases. It means, were the people bringing the case harmed by the FDA’s decision in some way that requires a remedy, or are they just butt-hurt little bitches who don’t like the decision. If the answer is no, they don’t have standing, and the other arguments become irrelevant.

Second: Was the FDAs approval arbitrary and capricious? Also a very common argument. In a nutshell, it just means the FDA had no reason for their determination, they just did it because they wanted to. But again, they did have a reason…fucking data.

Third: Was the district court right to give them relief? Prior to getting to SCOTUS, a judge and the 5th circuit did put the sale of mifepristone on hold, agreeing with AHM’s arguments, which is why we’re here on appeal.

Up first, for the FDA, is SCOTUS veteran Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar.

She pulled zero fucking punches, opening with saying, “Listen, these assholes have no reason to be here. This isn’t their fight, and not one of those motherfuckers will see any harm from these FDA rulings. So they don’t have standing, and they damn well know it.

Solicitor General Elizabeth Barchas Prelogar

Even if they do have standing, their argument is shit. We have lots of fucking data showing how safe mifepristone is, and therefore, the rule they want is draconian and stupid.

We all know, these assholes are just trying to backdoor a way to make it more difficult for a woman to get an abortion, right?

Lastly, if you give in to these assholes, in states where abortion is legal, you’ll make it so that women may end up doing riskier surgical abortions, causing more harm than to the women these assholes say they’re protecting.

As such, we invite AMH to eat our entire ass. Thank you.”

Justice Thomas, being the elder statesman, goes first. He asked simply, if AMH doesn’t have standing, then who would?

She was like, “Certainly not these assholes. They don’t take the drug, they don’t prescribe the drug, they’re not forced to administer the drug.

If anyone would have standing, it might be mifepristone competitors who feel it was unfairly approved while their shit wasn’t.

Justice Alito, jumping on Justice Thomas’ argument was like, “What about some doctor in an ER somewhere, a woman comes in, having taken mifepristone, is now having complications. And in order to save her life, the doctor must perform an abortion of an otherwise viable fetus. Can that doctor sue?”

General Prelogar was like, “We’ve looked at 20+ years of data. That hasn’t happened, in the tens of thousands of cases reviewed. So, it’s a stupid hypothetical, and you can fuck right the hell off with it. But sure, I’ll play your stupid fucking games. When that happens, that shit doctor can sue here.”

So again, Alito was like, “shouldn’t there be someone who could sue over this regulation?”

Associate Justice Samuel Alito

She responded, “Just because we can’t think of someone who wouldn’t have standing, doesn’t mean these assholes do have it. Capiche?”

Interestingly, she cited a case, Clapper v. Amnesty International, where one Justice Samuel Alito wrote the majority opinion, where he specifically stated, just because we can’t think of someone who’d have standing, doesn’t mean these assholes have it.”

I’m sure the irony wasn’t lost on him, and he probably stewed on the fact that she used his own words against him for the rest of the day.

If the FDA’s rules were different, for instance if doctors were forced to prescribe against their will, or patients who sought other treatments pushed into using mifepristone, you could see some argument for harm being done to them. But since that isn’t the rule, those are just hypotheticals that aren’t based in reality.

She then went on to say, if the FDA had gotten it wrong, and mifepristone were harming people, those people would have standing. But they’d also have tort law to go after the makers of mifepristone. And guess what, mifepristone hasn’t been hit with these suits, because the fucking drug is safe.

The problem for these assholes across the aisle, is it isn’t hurting anyone (except the fetus). The FDA got it right, there’s no one who is harmed, thus no one has standing to be sue over this shit.

Not to mention, doctors can’t have standing here, because they are never required to prescribe any drug. This is America, bro! Freedom and shit.

Before I go into Amy Coney Barrett’s next question. We should explain a few things. In the US, we have a law called The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA). This law, is the reason why a hospital must treat you, if you go to the ER, regardless of whether you can pay. They must only save your life, not treat you for non-life-threatening situations.

Associate Justice Amy Coney Barrett

So Justice Barrett asked, “What about EMTALA, can a doctor, faced with a women who’s going to die if she doesn’t get an abortion, refuse to do the abortion? For them, it’s a dilemma. They’re ending one life to save another.”

But general Prelogar made it clear, that hospitals ask doctors in advance if they have such objections, and staff accordingly, so this situation never occurs. As such, while it’s an interesting objection, it currently has no basis in reality. No doctor, will be forced to provide an abortion.

She then asked general Prelogar, what about other cases where they’ve shown that regulations might cause these groups like AMH to have organizational injuries. Like they may have to do extra paperwork or processes to comply with the regulation. What about that? Isn’t that an injury.

Again, general Prelogar was like, “It would be if it were true. But these assholes at AMH don’t have to do a damn thing because of this regulation. So, this is a useless question. Their expenses are entirely self-afflicted, in an attempt to win this case.”

Justice Neil “Golden Voice” Gorsuch chimed in and asked about the principle of “offended observer standing?” This is something Gorsuch, and Justice Thomas have quashed before. But some courts still seem to want to offer some notion of distress or offense as an injury. So justice Gorsuch, not defending offended observer standing, wanted her to opine on it nonetheless.

General Prelogar responded that in those instances, the government did something directly to the person that offended or distressed them. In this case, government merely removed a restriction on a drug. So it wasn’t an action taken against anyone. Therefore, that argument is fucking stupid.

Associate Justice Neil Gorsuch

Justice Alito, seemingly still skeptical, asked, what about a study that suggested that there were more ER visits from women who received mifepristone outside the hospital?

General Prelogar pointed out, that this doesn’t suggest, on it’s own, that women were experiencing more adverse effects. It just shows, that if a woman takes it without medical supervision, she may experience normal reactions to the drug, that worry her, so she goes to the hospital to make sure she’s OK, and they confirm as much. Most of the additional visits weren’t treated for any condition. The hospital just confirmed they were OK, and sent them home.

For the merits of this case, what matters is whether women had more adverse effects from the drug, which they didn’t.

Justice Sotomayor chimed in and asked, “while the more ER room visits is concerning, whether the rise is deemed a sufficient safety risk is up to the FDA to determine, right?”

Official Portrait of United States Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor Click for Biography

General Prelogar confirmed it is, then again hammered home, that adverse affects is what actually matters, and their studies showed no real increase of those.

She went on to point out, that the FDA also considers the burden on the health care industry. They created this rule, not just because mifepristone was quite safe when taken without medical supervision, but also, that the need for medical supervision created an unnecessary burden on the healthcare system. This rule actually makes healthcare safer, because someone might die as a result of a doctor being busy watching a woman take a drug that was of little to not threat to her, instead of being available to help a truly at-risk patient. Not to mention, all the dangers from pro-life activists.

Justice Jackson chimed in with a phenomenal question for the respondents, however, she was still speaking with petitioner’s counsel. Not that she didn’t know that, but she was basically testifying for the petitioner, and getting general Prolegar to agree with her.

Associate Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson

She asked, “Since these assholes are claiming an injury of conscience, where they’re being forced to participate in a process they oppose to on moral grounds, it would make sense to provide them an exemption. But you state they already have that, under federal law. So what they’re asking for, is to not only have to participate, but to prevent others who aren’t morally opposed to also be unable to participate.

General Prolegar was like, “You’re speaking my love language, KBJ!”

Next up is counsel Jessica Ellsworth, Representing Danco Laboratories.

What the fuck do they have to do with this? They make mifepristone. So they are here supporting the FDA’s side, and their drug.

She opened by laying out the absurdity of the respondent’s claim. Remember, that they argue they do have standing, if a doctor must perform an abortion, after someone has used mifepristone without medical supervision, in order to save the mother’s life. Let’s review what would have to happen for this to be true:

  • The drug would have to fail to work as intended. It doesn’t.
  • The patient would have to have a severe adverse affect that harms the mother. But that isn’t happening.
  • If they had such an adverse effect, it would somehow cause a severe risk to the mother’s life, yet the fetus would still be viable. This also isn’t happening.
  • The doctor would have to work at a hospital where no other pro-choice doctor is available. But the hospital’s hire in such a manner as to ensure this doesn’t happen.
  • If the they were somehow the only doctor on duty at the time, the doctor would then have to perform an abortion procedure under EMTALA. Again, the doctor does have that right under federal law, to refuse to perform a service they morally object to.

Justice Thomas mentioned the Comstock Act and it’s ramifications. This is a law that’s older than your mom, or your mom’s mom. It’s from 1873, for fuck’s sake. You remember, the time when society was very repressed and people walked around with crucifixes up our poop shoots?

These Christian zealots wanted to ban anything that went against their Christian values. The law was drafted by one grade A, Christian fundamentalist asshole, Anthony Comstock, a man who surely never encountered a party he was invited to.

Anthony Comstock

I can’t believe this stupid law is still even on the books. But anyway, it specifically prohibited sending sexually explicit materials and contraception or abortion aids in the mail.

I know what you’re thinking. Then how did I get that mega pack of condoms from Amazon in the mail?

Well, the law has been revised now and again, and for the most part, it’s been construed as limiting those things, if they’re illegal in the state it’s being mailed to. But let’s be honest, the law just needs to go. We’re way past this shit, now. It absolutely violates the fuck out of the first amendment.

Ironically, it may still be law, because it’s rarely enforced, and thus no one has standing to challenge it, because no one gets harmed since they don’t enforce it.

Counsel Ellsworth was like, “Listen, that fucking law hasn’t been enforced in nearly 100 years. So why start now?”

Justice Alito, seeming rather skeptical of counsel Ellsworth and her company’s motives, was seeking first to understand why they’re an amici. He rightly questioned if this is about money for them, as they’ll presumably sell more if the restrictions before 2016 are reimposed.

She agreed.

He then went on a tangent about asking if the FDA’s data is beyond question, and do they ever fuck up.

I don’t think he understands how the FDA works, but for the cheap seats, they don’t just approve something and let it ride. They continue to monitor these drugs, and if new evidence comes to light, they reevaluate their decisions accordingly. This is the scientific method.

Associate Justice Samuel Alito

And frankly, even if they do fuck up, some justice in a robe, is not the person to determine they fucked up. That’s for medical researchers, which the FDA has falling out their assholes. Know your role, Alito!

I think Alito’s argument was that the FDA could’ve fucked up, and that the AMH may have a valid argument. But the FDA have evidence, and the AMH have none. So we don’t bias towards those without evidence in science, any more than we should favor such things in court.

It was frankly, a poor line of questioning from Alito, in my humble opinion. But understandable from someone without a science background, or an understanding of FDA operations.

It’s also worth noting, if AMH were to win on the merits, it would undermine the entire FDA approval process, and every single drug approved for use in the US. Because now, any doctor with beef about a drug, can get the courts, who did zero science and are not scientists, to overrule the FDA, an organization of scientists who are trained to understand the dangers, safeness, and efficacy of drugs.

For instance, if a doctor who thinks people who use pain pills are all addicts who need to suck it up, then they could try to ban all pain pills. Hopefully, you see the problem here?

Justice Kagan then asked about the adverse effect reporting Danco was beholden to. That they were held to a higher standard of reporting.

Justice Kagan’s referring to the FDA’s Risk Evaluation and Mitigation Strategy (REMS).

Associate Justice Elena Kagan

Counsel Ellsworth noted that before 2016, prescribers had to report their adverse events to Danco, and Danco then reported to the FDA. But in 2016 when they changed the rule, they aligned it with the approximately 20,000 other FDA approved drugs, based on it’s safety record. She didn’t explain what changed, but I assume Danco no longer had to be in the middle.

Justice Jackson, shitting on her own branch of government was like, “Do you worry about us law nerds opining on you medicine and pharmacology nerds, and the shit you do, that we clearly don’t fully understand?

Counsel Ellsworth reminded them that the lower court, in the ruling for AMH, relied on citations of anonymous blog posts (not science), and other debunked or flawed studies the FDA would never accept as evidence, because their methodology was so flawed, no scientists would ever consider them good science.

She went on to respectfully point out that this isn’t the expertise of the courts, and that’s why they should rely on the FDA here.

Last up, for AMH, counsel Erin Hawley

If her name sounds familiar to you, she’s the wife of Senator Josh Hawley. A pro-life match made in heaven.

She started off by citing the the increased ER visits noted (and debunked) before, suggesting mifepristone has a significant increased risk when not taken under medical supervision.

Erin Hawley

She then went on to explain why she feels they do have standing, but her arguments, frankly, make little sense in that regard.

She essentially walked into the petitioner’s trap, by reciting the thing about all the things that would have to be true for them to be harmed, as if that wasn’t an absurdity, when the opposition showed it absolutely is.

Justice Thomas was like, “What’s your harm here? You claim additional time and resources, but as near as we can tell, that’s all self-imposed. The additional time and resources used, are just you here fighting this shit.”

She was like, “No, dawg. These doctors are morally opposed to doing an abortion. And this fucking rule might put them into a position where they have to either perform an abortion or let a woman die. That’s some grade A bullshit!”

Again, this was disproven by the petitioners, but that was her argument, and apparently she didn’t have a backup plan.

She then went on to colorfully argue, that now that they’re allowing this drug to be prescribed without medical supervision, their organization has had to divert from their mission of creating a pro-life society, to explaining the dangers of abortion drugs. You know, the dangers that the FDA have a shitload of data suggesting are not harmful at all?

I’m sorry to be so obviously biased here, but again, while I respect the basic pro-life position on it’s face of just wanting to preserve human life, these arguments are trash. They’re desperate attempts to win an argument they know they lose when they’re honest about the merits. It’s pathetic.

Justice Jackson chimed in with the “Show me the money” question. She was like, “where exactly did this injury occur to the doctor from the AMH group?”

Associate Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson

Counsel Hawley started to provide a hypothetical scenario where it would happen, but justice Jackson shut that shit down immediately. She was like, “I don’t want a hypothetical. I want you to show me actual harm your clients incurred. Do you have any?”

She was like, “No, but that doesn’t mean we won’t in the future.”

Justice Jackson was like, “if we ruled, that a doctor will never have to be faced with this extremely absurd hypothetical situation you describe by law, is that good enough?”

Counsel Hawley was like, “Fuck no. These are emergency situations. When the doctor is called and scrubbed in, they may not know that’s the situation. So for them to find out, object, scrub out, and attempt to bring another doctor in, puts the patient at added risk. That’s what we’re worried about.”

Justice Jackson was like, “So because of this highly unlikely scenario, you want to ruin this shit for everyone else because your people are pro-life zealots? I’m sorry, but you’re an asshole.”

Justice Gorsuch, tagged in for Justice Jackson, and was like, “Listen. When we provide a remedy, it’s supposed to be for your clients, but we typically don’t offer a remedy that goes above and beyond that.

For instance, your client lost a thousand bucks, we don’t give them a judgement for two thousand.

So what you’re seeking is a little unfair, is it not?”

Justices Gorsuch. Roberts, and Jackson’s all then asked questions wondering why the fuck are AMH wanting to ruin it for everyone else, when we can offer a remedy just for them…the one they already have by law, where they can refuse to do the treatment.

Chief Justice John Roberts

She really didn’t have a new response. She felt the conscience objection, in and of itself, was sufficient.

Justice Gorsuch then asked about universal injunctions.

What’s that you ask?

It’s when the court forbids government from enforcing a law against anyone, not just the people who got the injunction, which is what she’s asking for here.

Justice Gorsuch was like, “This was never done during Roosevelt’s 12 years in office, and over the last four years, maybe 60 times around the country by lower courts. But we’ve never done it. So what makes you so fucking special?”

Here response was essentially that her side deserves relief, and she feels it’s the only way they can get it, via this desired universal injunction. So that’s what makes them special.

Justice Kagan went on the warpath, next.

Channeling her best Law & Order “gotcha” skills, she was like, “We agree with standing rules, right?”

Counsel agreed.

So she then asked, “if you had to pick one of your asshole clients as the person who has standing here, who would it be?”

Counsel named two of the doctors.

Then Kagan was like, “So what fucking imminent injury are these two assholes facing if we rule against them?”

Associate Justice Elena Kagan

Her response again was a “harm of conscience.” That the doctors not only object to performing an elective abortion (elective just means, not an abortion to save the mother’s life, just an abortion to end the pregnancy because she doesn’t want to have a child), but also, they are morally opposed to finishing a procedure of that nature. For instance, if there were complications after the pregnant women takes the mifepristone.

So then, Justice Kagan was like, “Has she ever had a situation where this occurred to her?”

Counsel replied it had. That the doctor was asked to do a dilation and curettage procedure that was life threatening to the patient.

Justice Kagan then asked, “Did she object, and invoke her right to refuse?”

Counsel replied that there wasn’t time. It was an emergency, and she either did the procedure, or the woman would have likely died, had she opted out and sought another doctor in the hospital to do it.

Justice Kagan, seemed rather skeptical. Arguing that they didn’t make their objection known, they just decided to proceed and help the patient. So it must not bother them that fucking bad.

To Kagan’s point; imagine a neo-Nazi shoots up a Jewish school, gets shot doing it and goes to the ER, the doctors still treat the murderous fuck. Things like this happen all the time. Doctors treat someone they almost assuredly wish would die.

So the idea that they can’t help a desperate pregnant woman who just doesn’t want to see her life fall to shit, deal with complications from taking mifepristone? Give me a fucking break.

But again, counsel hammered home the idea, that it was a dilemma she was faced with, which didn’t provide her time to avoid. She had no way of knowing what she was walking into, and getting someone else to handle it in a timely manner.

Justice Alito threw counsel a bone, when he pointed out a New York voting district case. The courts gave standing to a political group because there was a citizenship question on the census document they tenuously argued would cause them harm. They knew that a certain percentage of citizens wouldn’t fill out the form because that question was there, which would then mean, New York would count fewer citizens than it actually had, leading them to potentially losing a voting district (electoral vote).

So if that convoluted set of “maybes” was good enough for standing, shouldn’t this be?

Counsel was like

Justice Sotomayor, however, was in no “bone throwing” mood with this shit. She went on to ask, that if it’s illegal in these states anyway, then what’s her point? The “injuries” these doctors incurred appear to be before Roe v. Wade was overturned, so they’re essentially claiming that they were injured before when abortions were allowed, so shouldn’t they assume they won’t be in the future?

Counsel Hawley responded that many of these women go out of state to get the prescription, buy the pill, take it, and go home, where the complications then occur.

Justice Barrett jumped in and noted that the two doctors she mentioned never actually terminated a fetus, which is what they claimed their opposed to.

Her response was that it was a broader conscience harm, meaning, she felt she was participating in the abortion process, even if she didn’t specifically terminate the fetus.

Under questioning from multiple justices, she also wanted to point out that requiring in-person visits gives the doctor an opportunity to do an ultrasound and detect complications before they become emergencies.

But as was made clear earlier, the increase was only to ER visits, not actual emergencies. Many were simply women worried about what was happening, and not experiencing life threatening.

Justice Barrett then questioned her on the financial harm she incurred. But again, they all seemed related to the expenses they racked up fighting this regulation, and not regulations they incurred from just doing what the FDA advised or walking away.

She tried to mention studies and such they performed, but they were all to make the case here, not costs they endured just by following the FDAs guidelines. So hard to really call that an expense, as it’s self-inflicted damage.

In the US, we don’t typically let people consider legal expenses, damage. Especially, when they’re the ones who instigate the litigation, and weren’t harmed otherwise.

Anyway, to wrap things up, solicitor general Prelogar was allowed a few minutes of rebuttal where she shit all over counsel Hawley’s claim these doctors incurred an ounce of fucking harm to give them standing.

I’ll let Prelogar wrap it up in her own words.

Solicitor General Elizabeth Barchas Prelogar

Thank you. On associational standing, Mr. Chief Justice, you asked where do you cross the line to get to a certainly impending injury.

One thing the Court has looked at is whether that harm has materialized in the past and how often.

Now it doesn’t always guarantee there will be a future injury, but it can be a source of information.

And, here, what is so telling is that Respondents don’t have a specific example of any doctor ever having to violate this care in violation of their conscience.

Instead, Respondents have pointed to generalized assertions in the declarations that never come out and specifically say by one of their identified members: Here’s the care I provided, here’s how it violated my conscience, and here is why conscience protections were unavailable to me.

The fact that they don’t have a doctor who’s willing to submit that kind of sworn declaration in court, I think, demonstrates that the past harm hasn’t happened, and the reason for that is because it is so speculative and turns on so many links in the chain that would have to occur and at the end would be back-stopped by having the federal conscience protections in play.

On organizational standing, my friend has pointed to the fact that they invested time in preparing their citizen petition.

She says they voluntarily conducted studies and then generally refers to diversion of resources.

If that is enough, then every organization in this country has standing to challenge any federal policy they dislike. Havens Realty cannot possibly mean that.

The Court should say so and clarify it is at the outer bounds and Respondents don’t qualify under that standard.

On remedy, Justice Gorsuch, Justice Jackson, you pointed out the striking anomaly here of the nationwide nature of this remedy. Justice Jackson, you suggested maybe a more tailored remedy to the parties protecting their conscience protections should have been entered.

The problem here is they sued the FDA. FDA has nothing to do with enforcement of the conscience protections.

That’s all happening far downstream at the hospital level.

And the only way to provide a remedy based on this theory of injury, therefore, was to grant this kind of nationwide relief that is so far removed from FDA’s regulatory authority that it’s ultimately requiring all women everywhere to change the conditions of use o f this drug. And I think it’s worth stepping back finally and thinking about the profound mismatch between that theory of injury and the remedy that Respondents obtained.

They have said that they fear that there might be some emergency room doctor somewhere, someday, who might be presented with some woman who is suffering an incredibly rare complication and that the doctor might have to provide treatment notwithstanding the conscience protections.

We don’t think that harm has materialized.

But what the Court did to guard against that very remote risk is enter sweeping nationwide relief that restricts access to mifepristone for every single woman in this country and that causes profound harm.

It harms the agency, which had the federal courts come in and displace the agency’s scientific judgments.

It harms the pharmaceutical industry, which is sounding alarm bells in this case and saying that this would destabilize the system for approving and regulating drugs.

And it harms women who need access to medication abortion under the conditions that FDA determined were safe and effective.

The Court should reverse and remand with instructions to dismiss to conclusively end this litigation.

In a unanimous decision, authored by Justice Kavanaugh, the FDA prevails by demonstrating that AMH has no standing to bring this to court. They won’t be harmed in any way by a woman taking Mifepristone in an effort to perform an abortion.

2024 Supreme Court of the United States

Standing may seem like something the court does, just to get out of making a decision, but the implications are a “separation of powers” issue. If a plaintiff doesn’t have standing, then it’s effectively the courts just weighing in on a political issue, which isn’t their job.

AMH, if they want this achieved, must convince congress and the president to make it a law. That’s why requiring standing is a thing.

By requiring the plaintiffs have standing, the courts are addressing a specific person being harmed, and attempting to remedy that harm, if they get a judgment, which is the role of the court.

While this may seem like a huge victory for abortions, it should be understood that all this does, is protect its access in states where abortions are legal. There will still likely be prohibitions on prescribing it in states where abortions are banned.

Hear oral arguments, or read about the case here.

With this case, I also used information obtained by a couple SCOTUS-themed podcasts. You can give them a listen if you like.

Strict Scrutiny covered it quite well

So did Amicus

While these podcasts tend to be more supportive of the view from the left, they do a good job covering the courts, and those of us who are more biased towards liberty are adult enough to handle opposing opinions aren’t we? Good good.

Average Joe SCOTUS: ZF Automotive US, Inc. v. Luxshare, Ltd.

Imagine going to buy a piece of property, and the realtor tells you it’s prime real estate. But then after you sign on the dotted line, you find out it’s in a flood zone, or close to something noisy like an airport. You got the ole bait n’ switch.

That principle is at the heart of this case for Luxshare, involving  28 U.S.C. § 1782—but for SCOTUS specifically, it’s what the hell constitutes a foreign or international tribunal. I know, you’re already riveted, right?

Well, a lot of people are apparently interested, because unlike most cases which have two sides, one representative each, and maybe one amicus between then, this case had three fucking people arguing for the petitioners, ZF Automotive, and two arguing for the respondents Luxshare. Five fucking people arguing this shit! That’s a record, for me.

Anyway…

Congress wrote 28 U.S.C. § 1782 to assist in international disputes, as a courtesy to other nations. As you may know, when you sue someone, you can request relevant documents, if you have evidence they’re pertinent to your case, via a subpoena.

So the gist of this law is basically that if a company is being sued in Germany for instance, but their headquarters are in New York, the German court can ask New York to order the company they want documentation from, to turn that shit over for use in German court proceedings, just as they’d have to do if the suit were all transpiring in the United States.

Most countries have a similar law—it’s just a way to reciprocate with each other in a world that has a lot of international business disputes.

When 28 U.S.C. § 1782 was originally written in 1948, it specified “courts” as the entity who can demand discovery. But then congress amended the language in 1964 to read as “foreign tribunals.”

It is well understood their intentions in amending this language were meant to broaden the scope to more than just courts, as there are other “official” proceedings that should have a right to subpoena evidence. It’s been applied to magistrates and governmental investigations around the world.

However, people have also attempted to use it to apply to international private arbitrations, which is why we’re here now—SCOTUS has had enough of this shit. Private arbitrations are when two parties agree to hire arbitrators, which are private entities—often lawyers—to settle their dispute out of court.

ZF Automotive

For the case in question here, in 2017, technology company Luxshare bought a Michigan factory owned by German auto-manufacturer ZF Automotive. But after moving into its new digs, Luxshare was not pleased with their purchase. They believed that ZF Automotive were less than honest about the value of this shithole.

As an Ohioan, I’d like to point out that it was in Michigan, so you’d think they’d have known it was basically worthless—nothing good comes from Michigan, except maybe Tom Brady.

Once Luxshare realized they’d gotten got, they wanted restitution. In their purchasing contract with ZF, they agreed to arbitration in Germany if there were any disputes of this nature. So using 28 U.S.C. § 1782 as their wingman, Luxshare requested a Michigan court to force ZF to help them with discovery documents from ZF Auto.

They wanted to prove they were highballed, since the ZF location in question is located in Michigan, but the discovery is to assist in support of their agreed-upon arbitration in Germany.

Stepping back for a second, I suppose I should explain something I haven’t previously. I know I often gloss over this, but in general, it should be understood that basically no one gets to go straight to the fucking Supreme Court.

If SCOTUS is the first and only court to hear a case, that’s called “Original Jurisdiction.” For SCOTUS, this generally only applies when two states have beef, or maybe some high-ranking ambassadors and shit.

Otherwise, the opposite of original jurisdiction is “Appellate Jurisdiction,” which is when a lower court rules, and a party of that decision, generally the loser, is none too pleased with those fucking idiots, and decides to appeal to a higher court.

This is called submitting a writ of certiori. The higher court reviews this writ, and decides whether they think it’s worth their time to review, or if they think it’s a big old nothing burger and tell them to pound sand.

If the higher court does grant certiori (agree to hear the appeal), either the petitioner loses again, or the superior court decides the lower court were fucking idiots, and overrule them.

So now, whomever lost the second round is pissed, and they appeal that appeal to a higher court again. This dance of sore losers eventually meanders it’s way to SCOTUS, one higher court at a time.

SCOTUS is generally an appellate court—the prettiest appellate court in all the land. There is no appeal once you lose there—other than maybe trying to get your shit heard again by a newer SCOTUS years later.

While we’re on the subject of shit I often gloss over, it’s also worth noting that on the subject of legal documents, it’s good practice to define terms that are written in your law or contract that could be ambiguous. The better one does this, the less likely the document will be scrutinized in courts.

For instance, in a contract, maybe you have verbiage that says, “This contract is null and void if either party acts like an asshole.”

Asshole is a word that is rather open to interpretation. So the contract would (and should) have a definitions section, and there, it would define “asshole” specifically. It might say, “Asshole: A person who has made publicly disparaging remarks against the other party.”

So now, when courts or arbitrators have to determine if one of the parties was an asshole, they clearly understand what the test is to determine if they were an asshole or not—did that party talk shit about the other publicly?

Make sense?

So, now that you understand that, this a great time to mention that those lazy fucks in congress didn’t define “Foreign or international tribunal” in 28 U.S.C. § 1782. They were too busy insider trading and grandstanding in front of congressional cameras to write an actual well-written law. Classic fucking congress! It should be known that probably 90% of what SCOTUS does, is cleaning up congress’ rather avoidable fucking messes.

SCOTUS is often just an editor for whatever congress writes. Congress writes a law with the linguistic skills of a caveman, so then some member of the public interprets their idiotic law one way, while some other idiot or government official interprets it another way, and now these two have beef which could have been avoided if congress had spent a little time writing a better fucking law.

So SCOTUS had to read 28 U.S.C. § 1782, and be like, “What fucking idiot forgot to define ‘Foreign or international tribunals?’ Here, let us fix this for you, you fucking morons. There’s 538 of you fucking idiots, and you can’t write a decent fucking law between you.”

I know SCOTUS is all polite and professional in public, but you know in closed quarters, this is the language they use.

Anyway, on to the arguments…

Counsel Roman Martinez opened for the petitioner’s ZF Automotive by pointing out that the reports from congress, when updating this law to read “foreign tribunals” clearly show that their intent was to create a cooperative effort with foreign governments in a similar way as we’d hope they’d do for us if the roles were reversed. There’s no fucking mention of private arbitrations in this shit.

Roman Martinez

He also points out that since arbitrations are more common than court proceedings, district courts are going to have these requests falling out of their assholes if the court were to side with Luxshare.

Justice Kagan, ever the skeptic, pointed out that things like “foreign university” or “foreign language” don’t necessarily mean it’s government related. So your fucking argument is full of holes, bro!

Counsel Martinez went out to point out that the rules commission who drafted this new rule, were specifically told to do so by congress, in an effort to enhance cooperation between nations. So how the fuck would that translate to private arbitrations?

Justice Breyer, being ever the contrarian was like, “Sure congress gave them a directive, but this language can be interpreted more broadly to include private arbitration, so what’s the fucking harm in that?”

Next up was counsel Joseph Baio, also arguing for the petitioners. He also wanted to answer Justice Breyer’s question with the Judge Judy defense. No shit!

Joseph Baio

He was like, “If some asshole goes on Judge Judy’s program and asks for discovery, we wouldn’t give that old bag jack shit. Even though she’s an actual judge, her fucking show is just private arbitration. So for you to side with those other assholes, you’d be arguing that a German Judge Judy, would have the right to discovery that American Judge Judy does not!”

My quote may not be verbatim, but that was the basic gist of it.

He went on to tell justice Breyer, “if you side with those dipshits, you’re basically incentivizing ambulance chasers like me to start our arbitrations in foreign countries, so we can bypass your rules here.

Justice Breyer seemed unimpressed.

Counsel Baio, being a man of extreme examples, also put forth his violin defense.

He was like, “A foreign orchestra could hold an audition for a violinist. That is a decision-making process that would be allowed if you ruled for those fucking idiots over there. Do you really want that shit?”

Justice Sotomayor, seemingly unimpressed, asked about the World Trade Organization (WTO). She was like, what if they pick some arbitrators. They’re an independent organization, and not a government. So are they fucked?

Counsel Baio was like, “Listen, I’m sick of your shit. If the individuals disputing the case select the arbitrators, it’s fucking private, and they can get bent. If however the WTO picks the arbitrators, it’s an international organization of cooperating governments, so they get to demand discovery. Why is this so difficult?”

Next up was Edwin Kneedler, acting on behalf of the US Government in support of the petitioners. His opening was basically a greatest hits of the first two. He was like, “Listen, y’all know the reason we passed this fucking law. It was about international cooperation with other governments. Why are we even talking about this shit?”

Edwin Kneedler

He argued quite simply, that the line he draws, is that an international tribunal has to be:

Established by government, and exercising governmental authority.

He also cited international comity. The idea that the standard the respondents want isn’t what other countries recognize. So if he were to lose, the US would be giving up discovery like a twenty dollar whore, where other countries would be more like a thousand dollar whore or something.

Finally, for the respondents, we first have counsel Andrew Davies. He argued that the “best and most natural interpretation” of foreign tribunal includes commercial tribunals, because they’re adjudicating a party’s legal rights.

Andrew Davies

He also points out that the courts benefit from arbitrations, because that means they don’t have to handle all those fucking disputes. So if SCOTUS rules against his side, that will actually create more work for the courts, not less, because people will be less likely to arbitrate international affairs knowing they won’t have that discovery option available.

He also cited that the court has sided with previous arbitrations, as promoting international comity, so the other side are a bunch of fucking liars spewing bullshit. That while they may be right that some countries don’t provide arbitration support, most of our major trading partners do.

Justice Neil “Golden Voice” Gorsuch chimed in and was like, “Back in 1964, arbitration wasn’t “a thing” like it is today. So surely congress then couldn’t have envisioned the world we live in now, with fucking arbitrations all over the god damn place. Clearly, congress wasn’t considering private arbitrations when they wrote this fucking rule, yeah?”

Associate Justice Neil Gorsuch

Counsel’s response was essentially to point out there there are lots of countries already supporting arbitrations in this manner, and the language doesn’t rule it out, so that should be good enough.

Justice Breyer, siding with Gorsuch was like, “Dawg, you crazy.”

Finally, counsel Alexander Yanos for the respondent. He dug deep and was like, “Hey man, these other assholes are just flat wrong when they say congress didn’t anticipate arbitration in this law. The senate report used to incite the committee to draft this law cited a German Mixed Claims Commission, which was effectively arbitration.

Justice Roberts pointed out that a representative for the government was here, and arguing the opposite position. Shouldn’t their opinion matter?

But counsel Yanos was certain that the point of the law was for international cooperation. If an arbitration is set up in a foreign country, and it’s decisions are binding under law, and only appealable by the courts, then it’s an international tribunal, even if it’s private arbitration, because any appeals do end up in court.

Alexander Yanos

Justice Gorsuch, seemingly unimpressed with counsel Yanos’ argument, and in agreement with the idea that it’ll add a lot more work to American courts, pointed out that 3rd party discovery is a pain in the ass that no one fucking likes. As such, he’s pretty sure congress wasn’t intending to make that shit the norm.

In a unanimous decision for ZF Automotive Group, SCOTUS decided that a foreign and international tribunal shall be defined as a governmental agency abroad, and not some rando third party arbitrators. Otherwise, it’ll basically be anarchy up in this bitch. Anyone with an international beef that forms some sort of inquiry board will be asking for shit they have no right to ask for.

As such, ZF is not required to hand over documents to Luxshare under 28 U.S.C. § 1782.

Weirdly, Justice Barrett who authored the opinion acknowledged that the word tribunal could certainly be interpreted as something that isn’t governmental in nature.

Associate Justice Amy Coney Barrett

She also acknowledged that foreign just means not located in the US, it also doesn’t have to mean a foreign government.

But when used together, a foreign tribunal is generally thought of as a governmental agency that isn’t part of the United States. Her argument for this was the term “foreign leader.” She was like, you wouldn’t call the president of a company abroad a foreign leader would you? Fuck no. You’d call the leader of a foreign country that.

They went on to define a foreign tribunal as a governmental agency from a foreign country, and an international tribunal is one where two governments join together to form some intergovernmental agency, like maybe NATO, or the United Nations.

She then suggested that it was plainly obvious the US passed this law to create a level of mutual respect among international governments and the US, and if that’s the purpose, helping third-party arbitrators doesn’t really serve that purpose.

She finally hit her opinion home by pointing out that in the US, third-party arbitrators don’t often get the right to demand discovery. So if we don’t do it here at home carte blanche, why the fuck would we give some international assholes that power?

Hear oral arguments and read about the case here at Oyez, or here at SCOTUSBlog

Average Joe SCOTUS: Morgan v. Sundance, Inc.

You want to talk about arbitration clauses? Great! This is the SCOTUS case for you.

Back in 2011, AT&T Mobility LLC v. Concepcion, was a SCOTUS case where the majority ruled that arbitration agreements, under the Federal Arbitration Act (FAA), were to be treated the same as any other fucking contract.

The idea was, that once people agreed to arbitration via a contract, they couldn’t just be like, “Fuck this arbitrator, we’re going to court instead.” Presumably, congress also liked the idea of not tying up the courts with a bunch of nonsense that arbitrators could handle.

For those who don’t know, arbitration agreements are basically when two people enter into some sort of relationship, but before they do, they agree that if they have beef with one another which might result in them dragging each other’s asses to court, they’ll use an arbitrator instead. It’s cheaper and easier to settle disputes via arbitration than going to court, plus I’m pretty sure it’s not a matter of public record either, in case you don’t want your private matters on blast.

Your insurance is likely one example. They may have written into the policy that if you disagree with a decision, instead of suing them, you agree to go through arbitration. Whatever the arbitrator decides, you both agree to do that thing.

The arbitrator also must be impartial. Not an employee of other side, or even retained by one party or the other. In some instances, both parties hire their own arbitrator, then those two hire a third impartial arbitrator to be a deciding vote.

This case involves a humble Iowa Taco Bell franchise employee, named Robyn Morgan. The franchise owner is Sundance Incorporated.

Morgan argues that Sundance Inc. failed to pay her overtime as prescribed by the  Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), which basically says if you are paid hourly, and work more than forty hours in a seven-day period, you must be paid at least 1.5 times your normal wage.

Sundance, when hiring new employees, has an arbitration clause in their application for employment. Pretty standard shit, really.

Well, Morgan, apparently being unaware or uninterested that this was the deal, opted to sue Sundance instead of going to arbitration, starting a class action suit claiming her and many other employees like her, were underpaid for the overtime they worked.

It’s not that these assholes aren’t allowed to go to court, but they had a fucking agreement. If they both waive that agreement, and decide court is the best path, they’re welcome to do so.

Morgan was not the only person alleging Sundance were some no-overtime-paying assholes. There was another case, Wood v. Sundance in Michigan, who also claimed the same. Sundance apparently owns like 150 Taco Bells all over the midwest.

Anyway, when Morgan filed suit, again, it was a class action. So Sundance was like, “Hey, man. There’s already another case out there (Wood v. Sundance), so this bitch is double-dipping. If she wants to sue on her own, fine. But this class action shit is wrong, man!”

The court however, thought the class-action was perfectly fine, and allowed her to proceed.

But, Morgan and Wood, seeing an opportunity to join forces, went into mediation as a united front against those no-overtime-paying mother fuckers. They got a shit ton of payroll data from Sundance, and eventually Wood settled, but Morgan was like, “No way, Jose. We want more.”

At some point, someone at Sundance finally went, “Hey, uhh guys? Don’t we have an arbitration clause? I seem to recall that shit somewhere. Why are we settling this through the courts?”

Another Sundance rep was like, “Fuck, you’re right my brother. How did we forget that? We must have been stoned or something. Let’s file a motion to compel arbitration and stop wasting time with this shit in court, then go get some tacos.”

They tried to argue that they were afraid they’d have to arbitrate with the whole fucking class, which seemed like a pretty big ask, but then when SCOTUS ruled on a similar case, saying such things weren’t required, which gave Sundance the feeling of safety to think they could just push Morgan to arbitrate. But we all know, they were fucking high, forgot, and got the munchies for some tacos, right?

Supreme Court of the United States

Either way, Morgan was like, “The minute you decided to file motions and shit to prevent us from a class action, you fucking waived the arbitration agreement. We’ve spent money and time prepping for court, not arbitration. So you can fuck right the hell off.”

A district court heard Sundance’s argument, but was like, “Sorry you idiots. But you waited too fucking long to compel for arbitration. With all the time and money she spent, you harmed her by waiting around to ask for arbitration until after she spent all the scratch.” This harm indicates that she has been “prejudiced.”

But Sundance was unmoved, and filed an appeal with the 8th circuit, who didn’t feel Morgan was prejudiced by such a delay. Apparently believing any money she spent preparing for court, was also good preparation for arbitration.

Lower courts had used a three-part test to determine the case before it made it to SCOTUS:

  1. Did Sundance fucking know they had an arbitration clause in place?
  2. Did they behave in such a way that suggests they knew they had a fucking arbitration clause and intended to enforce it?
  3. Was Morgan fucking harmed (prejudiced) in some way by them doing what they did prior to deciding to enforce their fucking arbitration agreement.

The debate in this case, is mostly about #3—whether the petitioner (Morgan) has a burden to prove that the respondents (Sundance) waived the arbitration, and such burden, is more of a pain in the ass (shows prejudice) than other burdens a petitioner might have to overcome in contract law. Most other contracts do not need to show prejudice to be ruled unenforceable.

Since SCOTUS previously ruled arbitration agreements shouldn’t be treated as more special than other contracts, Morgan’s team argues that having to show prejudice means she’s required to do more, and thus violates Concepcion’s rule.

As arguments began, Justice Roberts, with the politeness of a 50-year-old Boy Scout, asked counsel for petitioner Morgan, Karla Gilbride, “So what the fuck do we do if there’s a state that has some arbitration-specific rule? Tell the state to go fuck themselves, and shove that rule squarely up their ass?”

Counsel Gilbride was like, “Yeah, basically. Did you even fucking read the FAA? It’s part of my briefs. All contracts created equally.”

Justice Roberts was like, “Well how the fuck do we define waiver then? Isn’t it a case by case basis? No one has a million fucking rules defining what is and isn’t a fucking waiver.”

Chief Justice John Roberts

“Sure, bro. But what the lower court got wrong, was that they added a requirement of prejudice. They did analyze the first two tests, and agreed it had been waived. But then, they added that third part of the test, requiring prejudice. That’s what we take issue with.” Counsel Gilbride responded.

Justice Kagan chimed in and asked if Iowa law had a prejudice requirement in state law for all contracts, would it then be acceptable here?

Counsel Gilbride responded, “If we’re going to discuss things that aren’t true in this fucking case, then sure, since that would apply to all contracts equally, it would jive with the FAA and would be OK.”

Justice Barrett had some monkey wrenches she wanted to throw at counsel Gilbride, so she was like, “Based on the lower courts three part test, I know we’re assuming that they waived their right to arbitration by engaging with the courts instead of asserting arbitration right away. But instead of waivers, aren’t we really talking about estoppel by laches?”

Associate Justice Amy Coney Barrett

What is estoppel and laches you ask? Great fucking question. I didn’t know either. It’s basically the idea that if you wait too long to assert a right, the court will prevent you from asserting it later. So the difference is that a waiver is something you do voluntarily, whereas estoppel is when the court basically waives it for you, and you don’t have a choice.

The reason this matters, is that estoppel by laches does require prejudice. Meaning, for the court to say, “Fuck you, you can no longer assert your right to arbitrate because you waited to long” they must show that the wait fucked up the other party. If so, this puts Morgan back on the hook for #3 of the three part test.

Counsel Gilbride responded, “You’re assuming we’re arguing we weren’t prejudiced, but we’re not and never have. We’re just arguing it shouldn’t be necessary to show prejudice to begin with.”

Counsel Karla Gilbride

For the respondents (Sundance), comes SCOTUS regular, counsel Paul Clement.

He opened that nothing in any of these laws or contracts puts a fucking time limit on when arbitration must be asserted.

So while those other assholes claim that us waiting to assert it is akin to waiving that right, that’s a fucking lie. It’s waived, when we say it’s waived. If you assholes want to prevent us from asserting our right, then that’s estoppel, and you have to show prejudice. But we didn’t do shit to that girl that caused her harm. We were just chilling out, waiting to see what made more sense.”

Justice Gorsuch, seemingly unconvinced by this argument was like, “Are you really trying to say that the courts can never decide you waived your right if there’s no time limit on asserting it? Because that seems pretty fucking crazy, dog.”

Associate Justice Neil Gorsuch

Counsel Clement was like, “If it’s obvious we waived it, sure. But clearly we never made any effort to suggest we voluntarily waived it. They are just assuming that, and trying to get the court to impose it, which then becomes estoppel, and then requires prejudice. This isn’t rocket surgery, man.”

Justice Kavanaugh asked about the lower courts determination that there’s a “presumption of forfeiture” if you don’t demand arbitration in your first response. Once you agree to engage with the courts, you’re waiving arbitration.

Justice Kavanaugh also questioned the idea that Morgan wasn’t prejudiced. Any delays by Sundance due to motions and discovery are going to add costs to Morgan’s case, and that is certainly causing her harm.

Counsel Clement argued that other courts generally don’t require invoking arbitration at the first response, but instead, consider it waived if there’s a shit-ton of requests for evidence (known as discovery) and such that the defense requests for court.

Counsel Paul Clement

Justices Kagan seemed to be having none of Clements arguments, though. While he continued to hammer the point that just filing a few motions in court doesn’t mean his side waived their right to arbitrate, Justice Kagan accused him of just making up rules of default for his own benefit.

But the real dagger was justice Sotomayor chiming in, who laid out all the ways Sundance delayed and stalled, filed motions, and entered into settlement talks, all the while knowing they had an arbitration agreement they weren’t demanding be honored.

By their own admission, they were gambling on another SCOTUS case to see how it was decided, which would then give them a better understanding if they should litigate against the class action, or force arbitration. That decision to gamble, in her mind, was a fucking waiver of their right to arbitrate.

In a unanimous decision where Morgan wins, SCOTUS ruled indeed that the Sundance waived the right to arbitration when it engaged in litigation versus compelling arbitration. Morgan does NOT have to show she was harmed by their actions (prejudiced) before trying to compel arbitration, because that would then be a unique requirement for arbitration agreements, putting them on some unique tier, above other contracts, and that’s some straight up bullshit.

Listen to oral arguments or read about the case at Oyez.com and/or SCOTUSBlog

Berger v. North Carolina State Conference of the NAACP

Back in 2018, North Carolina, convinced they had a voter fraud issue, passed Senate Bill 824, their Voter ID law, requiring voters to present a valid government ID when attempting to vote in person, or by absentee ballot. If the voter does not have a valid ID, North Carolina provides the option to get an ID at no charge.

Their concern is that less than scrupulous people would go and vote more than once. For instance, let’s say Joe Voter, a Democrat, lives with his grandpa Dick Voter, a Republican, and both of them are registered voters. Sadly, grandpa is senile, and doesn’t remember to vote anymore. So Joe voter goes to a polling station in the morning, votes under his name, then hours later, returns hoping not to be recognized, claims he’s Dick Voter, and votes again, both times for a Democrat, even though he knows Dick would have wanted to vote Republican.

Scenarios like this are certainly occurring, but the depth of such voter fraud is thought to be so minimal by Democrats, that it’s implausible to be affecting election outcomes. But many Republicans on the other hand, think it cost Donald J. Trump the 2020 election. Even those who think Trump probably lost, still think it’s a bigger problem than any data shows.

To be fair, it’s kinda hard to poll people on whether they committed voter fraud or not.

As a result of this law, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), went into full race-baiting mode, declaring that this law is racist on the face of it, and aims to prevent black and Latino voters from casting a ballot. So they sued in federal court, to nullify the law on the basis it discriminates against protected classes—namely people of color.

You might ask if there is anything in the law about black or Latino voters, to buoy this claim. There is not. (I actually searched the law for any words of that nature to confirm).

The NAACP however, argues that apparently, black and Latino voters who have the wherewithal, motivation, and intellect, to make it to a polling location and vote, or request an absentee ballot and vote from home, somehow are too fucking stupid to go get their free government ID, if they don’t already have one.

Opinion:
This page is obviously libertarian philosophically, and as such, tend to think both Democrats and Republicans are serial rights violators. We also believe Trump had his ass handed to him in 2020. But, that doesn’t mean there was no voter fraud.

It’s just that what fraud was discovered, was so minimal, that even if all the fraudulent votes went the other way, Trump still lost.

But all that being said, our opinion is that the NAACP’s argument is some of the most racist shit imaginable. It insults every black and Latino voter, arguing that somehow, they’re less capable of getting an ID than their white counterparts.

This is a clear case of two parties, opposed to each other, looking for any means possible, to attack the other. It’s pathetic and shameful by the NAACP, in my opinion.

There are so many real genuinely racist issues affecting minorities in this country that need to be fought vigorously. This isn’t one of them. The NAACP is wasting valuable resources on this, that could be better spent working to fix systemic racism issues elsewhere.

In North Carolina, since the NAACP is suing over the state law, arguing it’s unconstitutional, it’s up to the AG in the state to defend it. As you can imagine, the Republicans who passed it, don’t care for their Democrat AG Josh Stein, and assume he won’t defend it as vigorously as they would.

North Carolina’s congress is majority Republican, but their current governor is a Democrat. So while Republicans passed this voter law, as you can imagine, the governor, and the state attorney general (AG) he appointed, being Democrats, aren’t fans. The governor has vetoed the bill, which was overridden, and he has made several public statements against it.

In comes North Carolina Senator Phil Berger and North Carolina House Rep Tim Moore, both Republicans. They want to act as an amici in this lawsuit, supporting Josh Stein. AG Stein however, is like “I don’t want your fucking help. I don’t need your fucking help. I’ve got this. Now let me do my job.”

But congressmen Moore and Berger are like, “Listen you whiny fucking tree hugger, we know you don’t care for this law. You’ll do the least amount possible to defend it, and we both fucking know it. So whether you want our help or not, we passed this law, and we don’t trust you to defend it, so we’re interjecting ourselves whether you want us to or not.”

The question for SCOTUS is whether North Carolina’s constitution allows for them to forcefully intervene, if the AG can make a fair argument that they’re defending the law properly.

It’s worth noting that the NAACP sought an injunction to stop the law from going into effect, and AG Stein, defending the law then, quashed the injection, keeping the law in force. So he may have a valid point he is defending the law in earnest.

Phil Berger & Tim Moore

The AG’s side contends this violates North Carolina’s constitution. Even before the United States was a country, NC’s charter said that the states legislative, judicial, and executive branches shall be “forever separate and distinct from each other.”

As such, this means in their eyes, that these legislators have no business intervening on the AG’s job, as he is a member of the executive branch.

As oral arguments began, counsel David H. Thompson immediately raised issue with the AG, who answers to NC governor Cooper. He pointed out that Cooper has a long history of thinking this law is grade A unconstitutional bullshit. He goes on to point out that governor Cooper threatened for fire election officials if they enforced this ID shit.

Justice Sotomayor questioned the validity of his concerns when she proposed that since AG Stein defended the injunction successfully, clearly, he’s doing his job defending the law. So these petitioners interfering isn’t about him not doing his job, it’s just that they don’t necessarily agree with his tactics. Remember that the issue isn’t about strategy, it’s about whether the AG is defending the law properly, which arguably he is.

Counsel David H. Thompson

She went on to argue, what if the state senate and house were of different parties, and they each wanted to pose different arguments, or maybe different caucuses within the parties even. Before you know it, you have fifty fucking assholes with an axe to grind, wanting to be heard on the issue, and it’ll be dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!

She’s like, “I’ve got better shit to do than read a million fucking briefs, and so do the rest of the courts. So what the fuck, man?”

Justice Barrett chimed on, on top of Justice Kagan and Sotomayor to understand where the line should be drawn as to when state legislators can and cannot intervene in such situations. Counsel Thompson, after going through logic tests from Justice Barrett, basically agreed that if the AG and legislators were perfectly in agreement of the law in question, then legislators may be fairly prohibited from intervening.

Justice Breyer then chimed in, discussing Federal Rule 24 for civil procedure, which in part says, “On timely motion, the court must permit anyone to intervene who claims an interest relating to the property or transaction that is the subject of the action, and is so situated that disposing of the action may as a practical matter impair or impede the movant’s ability to protect its interest, unless existing parties adequately represent that interest.”

He focused on that last bit, “unless existing parties adequately represent that interest.” He’s like, “generally we presume if they’re defending the law, and they’re qualified to do so, then they’re adequately representing the interest. Now you want us to write a new fucking rule of presumption?”

Associate Justice Stephen Breyer

Counsel Thompson responded:

The narrowest grounds to rule in our favor would be to say that this is a paramount interest of a state and it’s entitled under basic principles of federalism to have that federal interest vindicated by a representative who is exclusively focused on that. And they are not required, just because they’ve been sued under Ex Parte Young, to forgo having what they have in state court, which is a champion focused exclusively on winning the suit.

Justice Sotomayor, hearing all this, was still unclear about how he addressed her “fifty fucking assholes being allowed to intervene” situation. He the clarified that if 49 of those assholes are aligned and qualified, then #1 of 49 is the one allowed to intervene. The others can go pound sand up their asses. They were too slow.

Justice Sotomayor, not finished hearing herself speak, asked “What if they have overlapping interest. The fucking AG here is defending your fucking law. Just because you say that the AG and the Board of Elections only care about executing the election, doesn’t mean they don’t care about the integrity of it.”

But counsel Thompson was unamused. He channeled his inner McEnroe, and was like, “You can’t be fucking serious.”

A previous precedent often cited in this case was Trbovich v. United Mine Workers of American, from 1972, where SCOTUS ruled that labor union members could intervene on action from an employer, even when the department of labor was already fighting for them.

So counsel Thompson uses this as the main bedrock to his claim, since Sotomayor rightly points out the AG is defending his law adequately, which by law, should be good enough.

Official Portrait of United States Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor Click for Biography

It should also be noted, that he argues since the AG and Board of Elections have different interests than he does. They care about running the election as a practical or procedural matter, but his interests are about the integrity of the elections, and defending his law against constitutional challenges. As such, even if the AG is defending it, he’s only defending it to the point of making sure they are able to execute it, not on it’s merits in a constitutional challenge. Remember, the law cited above mentions “unless existing parties adequately represent that interest.” So he’s creatively arguing that because they have different interests, it’s impossible they are adequately representing his interests, only their own.

Occasionally, I come up with questions I don’t see addressed. I try to be humble and assume it’s just that I don’t know better. But in this case, imagine the AG and governor were also Republican and thought the voter ID law was the best thing since hookers and blow. Would he still be seeking to intervene?

Surely not.

So then his argument about different interests due to their different branches of government, becomes entirely invalid, as those different interests would still exist in that scenario.

So I’d argue, it’s about opposing political parties, not different interests of the job positions they hold.

Next up for the NAACP, we have counsel Elisabeth S. Theodore, who’s suprisingly very white. She opened with this:

Counsel Elisabeth S. Theodore

Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court: From Rule 24’s inception through today, a single principle has guided interpretation of the adequacy prong.

When a proposed intervenor’s interest is identical to one that’s already represented in the case, we presume that the existing representative is adequate, and that common-sense presumption holds particular force when the existing representative is a state official charged ethically and legally with defending state interests. The presumption is further supported by the strong federal interest in requiring states to speak with a single voice at a time in federal litigation.

From the vantage point of federal law, there’s one state.

The state as a unified entity is what matters for federalism purposes, and it’s the state that has the sovereign interest in defending state law. Where one state representative decides to no longer represent that interest, like in the Cameron situation, then a properly appointed state representative can come in to vindicate the interest that’s no longer being represented. That’s the same way federal law requires the United States to notify Congress to enable intervention when it stops defending a statute. But where an authorized state representative is actively defending the law, Rule 24’s goals of ensuring coherent presentation and simplified litigation should prevail. And this case is the poster child for why federal law puts a thumb on the scale against intervention when a state agent is already there defending. Unlike in Cameron, there’s just no need for intervention here.

Petitioners explicitly seek to assert the state’s sovereign interest in enforceability and defense of state law, the exact interest the Attorney General is charged by statute with representing and is telling this Court he is representing.

And he’s not only representing that interest, but unfortunately for my clients, he’s winning. And then, on the other side of the ledger, allowing the state to speak with multiple voices at once would complicate litigation and draw federal courts into state law disputes, such as the substantial ones here about what state statutes in the state constitution mean.

So there’s substantial cost without corresponding benefit to accepting what Petitioners propose. I welcome the Court’s questions.

I chuckled a little when she rightly pointed out that the AG was defending their law, and winning. It’s not a silly argument. Hard to argue inadequate representation when my dude is fucking killing it in court.

Chief Justice John Roberts

Justice Roberts, first to chime in, was like, “what’s this requirement for one voice shit you speak of? We have amici falling out of our assholes here at SCOTUS. Hell, half our cases have more than one fucking voice. Clearly, we’ve decided it isn’t ALWAYS to be one voice.”

But as always, because it’s justice Roberts, he said it with politeness and a boyish smile.

She went on to argue that this is bullshit, because this is a state interest issue. In other words, the entire issue is about how North Carolina handles it’s elections. It should not even be in fucking federal court. The only reason it is here, is because of the constitutional issue raised. But surely SCOTUS isn’t in the business of telling states how to run their elections. So addressing the constitutional issue, should be done by whomever the state appoints to address these issues, and currently, that’s the fucking AG.

Again, Justice Barrett, trying to draw a line in the sand, attempted to come up with a scenario counsel Theodore would accept as a valid situation for these legislators to defend the law here.

She advised that they could pass a law saying that in such situations, the legislator shall appoint someone. But then the AG would be off the hook, and could work on other shit.

Associate Justice Amy Coney Barrett

Justice Breyer pointed out in Trbovich, that SCOTUS did allow the unions to intervene, even though the Secretary of labor was helping them, because despite them having the same end goal, the secretary cared about protecting labor laws, whereas the union cared about defending union members. So isn’t this a similar competing interests issue?

But counsel Theodore was like, “I can’t wait until you retire, you old bastard. No, it’s not the fucking same, because one is a public entity protecting their governmental interests, the other is a private company protecting it’s union members. Two different entities are being represented. In our case, we just have two state representatives, representing one fucking state. Do you really want amicus briefs galore up in this bitch?”

Justice Breyer was like, “Riddle me this, you battle axe. Call me fucking crazy, but why wouldn’t the state want fucking help? It’s pretty rare an amici does more harm than good. So why would the AG reject their help, if the AG is defending the law in earnest? Shouldn’t they want all the help you can get?”

Remember, counsel Theodore represents the NAACP, not the state. So this is a weird one, where the petitioner wants to defend a law they passed, one of the respondents doesn’t want them to intervene because then they’re fighting two people, and the other respondent supposedly is defending the petitioner’s position, but doesn’t want the petitioner to stick their fucking nose in and help.

Justice Alito then jumped in and asked, “What if the AG did the absolute fucking minimum? Like basically phoned it in. Refused to bring in experts and shit. Would that be considered inadequate?

Associate Justice Samuel Alito

Counsel Theodore was like, “If that were the case, which we think it certainly fucking isn’t, they could replace him under law. They’re the ones who wrote the law making the AG the person to represent them in these scenarios.”

Justice Roberts rightly pointed out that this seems like the NAACP, which counsel Theodore represents, is basically asking SCOTUS to help her pick who she will fight against, and handicap them by removing a party that really wants to win this fucking case. Remember, it’s not the AG who’s fighting Berger here, it’s the NAACP.

Last up, Sarah Boyce for the state of North Carolina.

She opened by saying, “How the fuck are they going to say we’re not adequately defending their stupid fucking law, when they have yet to identify one issue where their defense of it, and our defense of it is different? Not to mention, we’ve fucking won every single step of the way.”

Deputy NC AG Sarah Boyce

She went on to argue that they’d be happy to allow these assholes to help in the defense, but she takes umbrage with the idea that they’re required to intervene.

She argues that because they have the same arguments, and that they’re winning in each challenge, that clearly it should be presumed they’re providing an adequate defense of the voter ID law, which Federal Rule 24 says they should provide, if they’re not to be replaced as counsel in defense of it.

I have more questions:

Why does the AG give a fuck about this? I’m going to assume that they aren’t in love with the law. His boss is on record hating it. So why wouldn’t the AG be like, “Hey man, you want to defend this? Go right ahead. I’m out. It’s all yours, you whiny bitch.”

They could just use their time for other things, and hand it off to these Republicans legislators and let them fuck this pig dry.

Other than some principled reasons or pride, it seems to me, that maybe the AG and governor hatched a plan to tank it if they were to win here?

Associate Justice Elena Kagan

Justice Kagan, seemingly being skeptical of her own position asked if counsel thinks it’d be OK for them to fight for the specific legislative interest of the law, which everyone seems to agree, isn’t the interest of the AG who is charged with the execution of it.

Counsel conceded that if that were the case, she could see where that would be their right.

In rebuttal, counsel Thompson for the Republican legislators closed with this:

Yes, Mr. Chief Justice, just a few quick points. They claim they’re not trying to pick their opponent, but they are because they filed in federal court, not in state court.

If they had filed in state court, we would be there as defendants, number one. Number two, they invoked the prospect of intramural fights, but there are frequently instances, it happens all the time in 1983 litigation, that a plaintiff will name a variety, a multiplicity of state defendants, and they haven’t been able to point to a single example of when the multiplicity of state defendants in a 1983 suit somehow has created problems in terms of administration of justice. And that’s because of the presumption of good faith.

And they acknowledge at page 55 of their brief, candidly and forthrightly, that they have no doubt that if we come into this case we will work cooperatively with them, as we have done on many occasions before. They invoke the role of the attorney general.

But Rule 24 talks about parties, not lawyers.

And the party here is the State Board of Election, which has the responsibility for administering the election. They say that they prevailed in the Fourth Circuit.

The March 2020 primary was held without this law in effect, and the reason it wasn’t in effect is because they prioritized their administrative responsibilities over the merits and the Purcell violation. And then, finally, there was a discussion about, well, maybe this case will be rendered moot by the state court.

The briefing hasn’t been completed. There’s no argument.

We don’t know how the North Carolina Supreme Court will rule. And it could be capable of repetition yet evading review even if that proceeding ultimately one day did moot things out. Thank you.

In the end, the legislators prevail, in a 6:3 decision divided on party lines. The majority decided that if the legislator believe their interest won’t be represented adequately, they have every right to intervene. They agreed with the argument that the AG’s interests are not the same as theirs, and therefore it’s fair to assume they’ll only represent their own interests.
2022 Supreme Court of the United States

The Democrat-appointed minority, as usual, think the other six are just being assholes again. There’s been a lot of that lately.

Hear oral arguments and/or read about the case here at Oyez, or here at SCOTUSBlog.

Average Joe SCOTUS: Ruan v. United States

Y’all know everyone keeps talking about us being in an opioid epidemic, right? While I personally think some of this is unfair, true stories of bad actors, such as the Sackler family, who own and operate Purdue Pharma, the makers of Oxycontin, don’t exactly paint a wonderful picture of opioids. Their willful dishonesty and disregard for the lives of their customers, led to many addictions and overdoses.

The Hulu docuseries Dopesick is quite interesting, depicts their actions pretty well, and is definitely worth a watch if you’re unfamiliar.

I think the opposite side of this coin, is that many patients, know the dangers of opioids, but will doctor shop, getting multiple prescriptions, so that they can overdose themselves, or worse, turn to black market opioids like heroin.

People who argue as if it’s basically always the fault of doctors and pharmaceutical companies is the work of grade A assholes…and probably socialist anti-capitalism pricks, too.

While some SCOTUS decisions are legal nerdiness which will likely have little effect on most of us, this one, in the words of that great philosopher Biden, is a big fucking deal.

So this case revolves around Alabama pain management physician Dr. Xiulu Ruan, who is potentially just a piece of shit selling prescriptions for money. His job is to mitigate pain, and opioids are fucking GREAT at that. But it is fair to argue that he would at least prescribe more opioids than the average lab coat.

Full disclosure, for over two decades, I’ve used the opioid hydrocodone myself once or twice a month, to deal with neck issues that often trigger unbearable headaches. But because my pain is not chronic, and I rarely have to take them, mine tend to expire before I even use them all.

But Dr. Ruan likely has patients who do have chronic pain that just won’t fucking go away. Lower back pain, and other genetic conditions of that nature, are often well-managed by opioids. And if Dr. Ruan refuses to prescribe an opioid for them, they’ll likely take their business elsewhere and find a doc who will.

Dr. Xiulu Ruan

The aforementioned Sackler cunts poisoned opioids good name, by lying to physicians and their consumers, and saying their version, Oxycontin, was non addictive.

It was a big fucking lie. Not a mistake, a lie. The evidence presented in court showed they knew it was untrue, but simply wanted to sell more of that shit, so they lied.

As a result, all that scratch they were making, well $6 billion of it meandered it’s way out of their bank account in a bank-breaking settlement.

Anyway, back to Dr. Ruan. The basic gist of this case, is that a federal jury convicted Dr. Ruan of racketeering and other related crimes, as they argued he was basically a “pill mill.” A euphemism for a doctor who just hands out opioid prescriptions for money.

You know, like some dude walks into his office, says his asshole hurts or his dick is broken, then winks and nods, pays the copay, and gets a prescription, while Dr. Ruan picks up a few hundred bucks for basically signing an autograph.

The jury agreed with the prosecution that the amount of opioids and other addictive pain meds he was prescribing, were outside of the norm for a doctor like him.

Dr. Ruan will of course argue, that he prescribed these medicines in good faith, and that he believed the drugs he prescribed were appropriate for the patients he had.

The Controlled Substances Act of 1970 (CSA) basically says it’s illegal to manufacture, distribute, or dispense a controlled substance, such as an opioid. One exception is for doctors, under rules put forth by the attorney general. Rule 21 C.F.R. § 1306.04, which gives doctors license to prescribe drugs like opioids if they are:

Issued for a legitimate medical purpose by an individual practitioner acting in the usual course of his professional practice.

I’ll look over the sexist verbiage that assumes the doctor must be a “he.” It was 1970 after all.

Former President Nixon and two other idiots signing the CSA.

The issue SCOTUS is trying to decide, is basically this. Does a doctor who believes an opioid is the best treatment for their patient, have carte blanche authority to prescribe it? The petitioners call this the “good faith” argument.

It basically means, as long as there’s evidence the doc thought what they were doing was right, it doesn’t matter if they’re prescribing way more opioids than the other doctors in their field. Maybe the other doctors are just biased against opioids, or aren’t prescribing them properly? Or maybe he or she is just a shit doctor. But, being a shit doctor isn’t a crime.

It’s essentially a mens rea argument. I think we’ve discussed mens rea before, but it loosely translates to “guilty mind.” A prime example would be Hillary Clinton’s email bullshit. FBI director James Comey said she definitely committed a potentially criminal act. But there was no evidence they had indicating she knew it was criminal. So without that mens rea, they declined to prosecute. Got it?

Former FBI Director James Comey

On the other side of this, the principle Dr. Ruan was found guilty under in lower courts, was that the amount of opioids he was prescribing were through the fucking roof compared to other doctors like him. As such, the jury believed he was doing it because he wanted a new Ferrari and some top shelf hookers. Not because he thought it was good for his patients.

They feel that in general, if a doctor is doing something rather different from the norm, it’s indicative of malpractice, or some motive other than helping their fucking patients.

The other doctor who’s joined with Dr. Rual, even traded guns and shit, for his “medical services,” aka prescribing pills. So they kinda have a fucking point on these two assholes.

It’s also mentioned that both of them apparently had stock in the pharmaceutical companies that made the drugs they were prescribing. But even the stupidest doctor would know that their prescription pad alone isn’t going to move the needle all that much on the stock price. It’s just as likely they bought stock because they believe in the drug. This is what we call “shit evidence.”

I know I’m being potentially too polite to these doctors, because I believe in the principle they’re fighting. But it’s almost assuredly true that both of these fuckheads have broke bad, and are just doing this shit for the money, with little concern for their patients. They were convicted beyond a reasonable doubt of other related charges that aren’t at issue here. This is them just trying to reduce their sentence.

My bias is probably because the fight against opioids, and the laws that are passed that make it harder to attain them, harms people like me, who use them as directed. Because my usage is so sporadic, I’ll likely never face any addiction issues.

The doctors did agree, that they could have been more thorough in their prescription methodology, but they argue that even if what they did was malpractice, that’s a whole different realm than the criminal intent to distribute that they’re charged with.

The government however, thinks as the government always thinks, that it knows best. They believe they can come up with some sort of standard level of opioid prescriptions, and doctors who deviate from this, must be considered criminals.

But the doctors are like, “If you listen to these cunts, doctors will not prescribe things their patients actually need, just because they’ll be afraid of going to jail. They’ll be in constant fear of some dumb-fuck bureaucrat who decides they know more about medicine than we do. So next time you ask your doc for a med you need, but there’s concerns from congress about that drug, well fuck you. You ain’t gettin’ shit from us.”

They also contend that this could significantly thwart things like “off label” prescriptions. I’ll explain this shit, because it’s kinda interesting.

This is where a drug is FDA approved for one thing, but it’s prescribed to help with something else it’s not approved for.

This “off label” jazz is also somewhat of a big deal, but not always understood.

Remember during COVID when Trump and others were all gung ho about hydroxychloroquine for treating COVID? It all started because observational data suggested it might be effective, but then it was found ineffective under controlled clinical trials, and so most doctors stopped using it.

The reason they were on this path was because doctors, operating in good faith, had reason to believe, from those observational studies, it might work for COVID, even though it’s only FDA approved as treatment for malaria, lupus, and other shit. Thus, prescribing it is “off label.” Meaning, philosophically speaking, the label says it isn’t for COVID, its for that other shit. Make sense?

“Off label” may seem like a fucked up thing for docs to do, but it’s actually based on data. They are generally the product of observed side effects. I’ll give an example. Because not only do I use an opioid, I also have another drug I use off label. This whole case is up my alley!

The drug I use off label is colestipol. It’s meant for people with cholesterol issues, which is what it’s FDA approved for. But during clinical trials for its efficacy in treating people with cholesterol problems, it was noted that for people who routinely get the Hershey squirts, it seemed to make them more “regular.”

Do I really need to caption this?

So the makers of colestipol never bothered to do clinical trials to test it’s efficacy for people with an internal chocolate syrup fountain, but doctors can prescribe it for that condition, because they have data to suggest it might help. The reason drug makers might not seek FDA approval, are likely to do with the cost of doing separate clinical trials for the drug, not because they think it’s not good for that condition. Not to mention, doctors are allowed to prescribe off label, so the FDA approval, is really more about being able to make a fucking commercial for that shit.

Sorry, I keep getting diverted with my nerdiness. Back to the case!

One of the key phrases in the CSA that they argue over, is the phrase “knowingly and intentionally.” The doctors argue that there’s no fucking way on god’s green earth, that they knew beyond a reasonable doubt they’d harm their patients, or that they intended to.

But the government argues that the CSA uses that verbiage well after the part about exceptions for doctors prescribing such drugs, and therefore doesn’t apply to it.

Amici (other third parties) have also pointed out that when something is all over the news, we are some over-reacting mother fuckers. We turn it into a crisis, even if it’s not. Then we pass over-restrictive laws or regulations that we then have to walk back, once we realize we went too fucking far. The makers of South Park have made a living off this premise. The CDC has walked back some of their restrictive opioid rules as a result.

They also argue for people like me. That this could make it harder for us to attain medication that is helpful to us, and isn’t doing us harm, to attain the medicine we need.

Opinion: While my case is pretty mild, some people suffer a LOT, and opioids are a godsend to them. Government has no business making it hard for them to get what they need.

They also argued that when faced with an unusual case, doctors often have to try novel therapies, because the normal shit just won’t work. But if they’re afraid they’ll go to jail, for trying something out of the norm in good faith, they’ll be put in a fucked up position.

As I lay all this out, I think you can understand why, even if these particular docs were pill mills, the principles they argue for are pretty important. If they were just doing it for the money, may they both choke on a bag of dicks. That’s not OK.

As arguments began, counsel Lawrence S. Robbins for Dr. Ruan opened with this.

Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court: Dr. Xiulu Ruan’s jury was instructed that it could convict him of federal narcotics offenses if he prescribed “outside the usual course of professional medical practice.” The Eleventh Circuit sustained that instruction precisely because it “told the jury that good faith was a defense” as long as the appellant’s conduct also was in accordance with the standards of medical practice.

Counsel Lawrence S. Robbins

In other words, good faith is a defense in the Eleventh Circuit only for doctors whose prescriptions are already lawful. No lawyer will stand up before the Court this morning and defend either that instruction or the court of appeals’s rationale. And small wonder.

Dr. Ruan received little more than the instruction he would have gotten had this been a civil malpractice action in Alabama. So, in our view, Dr. Ruan’s case must be remanded, and on remand, the Eleventh Circuit should either dismiss this prosecution outright for want of sufficient proof of Alabama substantive standards or, at a minimum, order a new trial on all counts, this time governed by the correct scienter rule.

And that rule, we submit, which largely tracks the law in the First, Seventh, and Ninth Circuits, is that a doctor may not be convicted under Section 841(a)(1) unless the government proves that her prescriptions were made without a good-faith medical purpose. The good-faith medical purpose test makes the best sense of the statutory text, this Court’s case law.

It also accords with principles of federalism that are embedded in the statute itself, enables the jury to focus on the question of intent, as it always does in criminal cases, and affords an appropriate berth for doctors and patients to make the best choices for the individual care of what is often invisible and yet real and intractable pain. I’d be pleased to hear the Court’s questions at this time.

His opening point being that how the fuck can he claim “good faith” as they said he could, if that only applies to usages that are within the bounds of normal usage? None of those cases would ever go to court, and thus good faith is moot in that scenario. So basically, the other side are fucking idiots or assholes…maybe both. They do work for the government, after all.

Justice Roberts chimed in with a hypothetical where he asked, what if I know the speed limit is 55mph, but I’m in fucking Montana, and the roads are long, flat, and boring as fuck. So I decide it makes sense to do 70mph here. We all know your dumb ass gets the ticket. So what’s different here?

Chief Justice John Roberts

But counsel Robbins was ready for his hypo. He was like, “Dude, this isn’t some ‘line drawn in the sand’ drug law that’s like a speed limit. The are arguing the whole ‘good faith’ argument, which is about the doctor’s state of mind.” Not to mention, there is no “Opioid Limit.”

As Justice Sotomayor chimed in, attempting to understand the line he’s drawing, he clarified that his position is that the government must prove he did not act in good faith. We’re talking about some criminal shit here. So it’s not up to the doctor to prove he’s fucking innocent. This is America!

He went on to argue to Justice Sotomayor:

Oh, no, no, I’m sorry, Your Honor.

Nobody is going to tell you this morning that that burden somehow belongs to the defense.

Everybody will concede—if you ask my friend, Mr. Feigin, he will tell you that once the issue is put in play under 885, it then falls to the government to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, the absence of good faith. But I’d like to go back to where Your Honor began her question because you said the words “knowingly and intentionally must prescribe outside the bounds of medicine and without a medical purpose.” It is important for me to be clear that my client didn’t get that instruction.

His jury was told, if he was outside the bounds of medicine, you may convict him, full stop.

No good faith.

No knowingly or intentionally. None of that. So I want to be clear that the premise of Your Honor’s question is a premise under which our conviction should be reversed.

He makes a valid point, we can quibble about the law, but these fuckers were convicted when the jury was not advised properly about the law.

Justice Alito, apparently saddened that he studied law instead of English wanted to discuss the proper use of adverbs. Here’s the passage from the CSA they’re discussing:

§841. Prohibited acts A

  • (a) Unlawful acts
  • Except as authorized by this subchapter, it shall be unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally—
  • (1) to manufacture, distribute, or dispense, or possess with intent to manufacture, distribute, or dispense, a controlled substance; or
  • (2) to create, distribute, or dispense, or possess with intent to distribute or dispense, a counterfeit substance.

Justice Alito’s argument was this:

We’re interpreting a statute, so we should start by looking at what the statute says, and it says, “except as authorized by this subchapter, it shall be unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally to” do a variety of things. As a matter of language, do the adverbs “knowingly” or “intentionally” modify the introductory clause “except as authorized by this subchapter”?

I think my old English teacher would say no, you’ve gotten that answer wrong.

Associate Justice Samuel Alito

There’s no way they can modify “except as authorized by this subchapter.” They modify what comes later.

But explain to me why they modify it as a matter of language, not as a matter of constitutional avoidance or something like that.

After they debated linguistics for what seemed to be 47 years, coming to no real conclusion, they moved on to Alito’s other question about section 885, which reads:

§885. Burden of proof; liabilities

  • (a) Exemptions and exceptions; presumption in simple possession offenses
  • (1) It shall not be necessary for the United States to negative any exemption or exception set forth in this subchapter in any complaint, information, indictment, or other pleading or in any trial, hearing, or other proceeding under this subchapter, and the burden of going forward with the evidence with respect to any such exemption or exception shall be upon the person claiming its benefit.

Alito’s argument was that this provision potentially reads that the government does not have to prove the doctor acted maliciously. That if the doctor wants to claim they didn’t, the burden is on the doctor.

So counsel’s beef that the jury in their trial was not instructed about the good faith exception, they were basically just told, if the doc is outside the norm, you’ve gotta convict, which is bullshit, in his legal opinion.

In an odd sort of exchange, Justice Gorsuch basically walked through Robbin’s argument, to make sure he understood it. In doing so, he basically made a more eloquent and simple version of counsel’s argument. Because “good faith” doesn’t appear in the statute, it’s basically their shorthand for the opposite of “knowingly and willfully” that is in the statute, and is just a general legal principle for shit like that.

In a moment of levity, when counsel went to add on to Justice Gorsuch’s explanation, Justice Gorsuch responded, “Be careful.”

Associate Justice Neil Gorsuch

The point was that, if he agreed Gorsuch made the proper argument, he shouldn’t elaborate for fear of changing everyone’s mind, after they already agreed with him. But all he added was that, because of the shitty jury instructions, he believes his clients deserve a new trial.

Next up, amici for the petitioners, Beau B. Brindley.

His argument was that, so long as the doctor believed they were helping their patient, then they were not trafficking drugs. It doesn’t matter if 100 other doctors think this doctor is an idiot. What matters again, is mens rea. Did they know it was wrong and do it anyway. The law is clearly meant to go after people trying to make a living off of peddling drugs, not people trying to help their patients in potentially unconventional ways.

He went on to argue, that if they were to adopt the government’s position, the DEA would become the new US medical board, deciding what is good and bad practice, as opposed to the AMA I’m guessing, which is a private entity.

Congress certainly never authorized the DEA to become Team America Hospital Police.

He argued that there may be extreme examples where no reasonable doctor thinks this is OK, and that’s different. But if it’s plausible this was medically valid, and the evidence suggests the doctor intended to help their patient, then they’re not trafficking drugs.

Justice Kavanaugh, concerned about this “extreme example” theory, jumped on Justice Roberts’ hypothetical with this:

On the hypotheticals, to pick up on the Chief Justice’s hypotheticals, the speeding example, suppose there were a statute that regulated speeding that, like this statute, folded the legal requirements into the offense, okay? If you come in and you—you’re going 35 in a 25 zone, and you say, oh, I thought it was 35 here, maybe a jury will believe that you really did think it was 35, not 25. But, if you’re driving, you know, a hundred in a 25 zone and you come in, oh, I thought it was actually a hundred, was the speed limit, no one’s going to believe that.

Associate Justice Brett Kavanaugh

Isn’t that the way to separate out the outlandish example?

Counsel effectively agreed with Justice Kavanaugh, but then Justice Roberts jumped back in and was like, “Even if a fucking jury totally believed you were thinking it was OK to drive 100 mph, you still get the fucking ticket. What the fuck are we even talking about here?

But as usual, Justice Roberts is like super nice, and said this with a smile…and maybe some softer language.

Justice Coney-Barrett, feeling left out from the party of hypotheticals, chimed in with this elaboration on Justice Roberts’ hypo.

Would this be a closer analogue to your example, to pick up on the Chief Justice’s hypothetical? Except as authorized by law, you must drive under 55 miles per hour.

And you say, well, I thought I was driving in a way that was authorized by law at a hundred miles an hour because I was trying to get my child to the emergency room.

And it turns out that you’re wrong, that that’s not an authorized, you know, exceeding of the speed limit. Is that what you’re trying to get at? That presence of the “except as authorized by law” is what distinguishes the Chief Justice’s hypotheticals from your position?

Counsel Brindley responded:

I think somewhat that’s true to some extent.

Counsel Beau Brindley

What I would say is that the thing that differentiates the — the Chief Justice’s hypothetical from our position is, in this situation, we have a — a situation where the very thing that makes the doctor’s — the only thing that makes the doctor’s writing the prescription improper or criminal is if he writes it with no legitimate purpose, not believing he’s curing a malady of any kind. And so, with respect to that, if he’s sincerely wrong about that, he lacks a culpable state of mind and he should not be convicted.

Next up for the government, we have Eric J. Feigin. He opened up with this diatribe:

Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court: Although Petitioners are trying to disclaim it as much as they can, they really are asking this Court to transform their DEA registrations, which are premised on the idea that they’re actually practicing medicine, into licenses to, at their own subjective views, violate the general rule that drug pushing is illegal. They want to be free of any obligation even to undertake any minimal effort to act like doctors when they prescribe dangerous, highly addictive, and, in one case, lethal dosages of drugs to trusting and vulnerable patients. That’s not what this Court said in Moore, where I think everyone agrees the Court implicitly adopted the jury instructions in that case, which distilled the statutory and regulatory requirements here to come up with an honest effort standard. If a doctor is trying, in Moore’s words, “to act as a physician,” he can’t be convicted under Section 841.

But a doctor can’t choose to be the kind of doctor who seeks a DEA registration because he wants to deal with the most dangerous drugs that we have with a recognized medical use and then decide that, notwithstanding the boundaries of that license, he can invoke it to shield all drug dealing that he’s running in the guise of a doctor’s office. There’s been some suggestion today that applying a knowledge standard, you know, what’s the difference? It’s all oblique, these are very oblique examples, and it’s never going to matter in practice.

And I’d like to—if I get a chance later, to explain exactly why this isn’t just a matter of hypotheticals. I can give you three examples, we have more, but three examples of cases, and these are admittedly stylized a bit, but they’re based in reality of why this really matters on the ground. Number one would just be the irrationally egotistical doctor, and these are the kinds of cases we have trouble even bringing, let alone convicting a doctor.

Solicitor General Eric Feigin

It’s a doctor who gets his license and his registration and he says, all right, you know, I think, at bottom, the Hippocratic oath, I just want to treat patients.

And he prescribes substances that any other doctor would say are crazy and lethal.

And he says, at bottom, we’re all doctors, and my subjective belief is, at the end of the day, if doctors see patients, they got to do right by those patients.

And that’s number one. Number two would be the absentee doctor, and one problem with their standard is it really rewards doctors for untethering themselves not only from the medical profession but from their patients.

It’s the kind of doctor, and I think you’ll see some resemblances to the doctors here, who doesn’t follow up on the background of his patients, doesn’t make sure they’re taking the medications, doesn’t even conduct physical exams, doesn’t check the database to see who else is prescribing opioids, and trusts nurse practitioners, who aren’t DEA registrants, aren’t allowed to do this, don’t have medical licenses, to do most of the prescribing.

I’ll gloss over the fact that he argued these are the most dangerous substances. They are not. Hell, plastic surgeons handle much more dangerous drugs—Botox. Botulinum, the active ingredient in Botox, is literally the most dangerous substance to humans we know of. No shit!

Justice Sotomayor was quick to ask, “What the fuck is your burden, then? What do you have to prove, to get a conviction?”

Official Portrait of United States Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor Click for Biography

Counsel Feigin responded:

So, Your Honor, we place our burden exactly where Moore did, which is an honest effort, which we interpret as some objectively minimal, reasonable effort to practice some recognizable form of medicine.

Call me crazy, but his wishy-washy statements are going to make it hard for the court to draw a distinguishable line, and as such, is making it real hard for them to side with him.

Justice Gorsuch, again decided to walk through his argument, step by step, starting with the now “Be careful” intro he’s apparently going to make his catch phrase.

First, he wanted to make sure that they agreed that it was the government’s burden to prove all the elements (elements is just a fancy word they use for all the the things in the law that make up the law’s requirements, or forbidden actions). Counsel confirmed they agreed.

So then step two was asking if they agreed on the “except” clause as an element.

Counsel Feigin was like, “Well, we’re already off on the wrong foot, my man.”

So Justice Neil “Golden Voice” Gorsuch, was like, “How the fuck do we disagree on this? The issue isn’t that he’s prescribing medicine, your issue is that he’s doing it outside what his DEA registration to prescribe it, says he should do, right?

Counsel Feigin was like, “OK, fair enough. I’m with you now, bro.”

So now Justice Gorsuch is like, “Alright, we’re back on track. So if we agree so far, then the government typically has to negate all the exceptions in any “except” clause, yeah?”

Associate Justice Neil Gorsuch

Counsel Feigin was like, “Woah, woah, woah, woah, WWWWOOOOAAAAHHH! I didn’t say that. We’re off on the wrong foot again, my man!”

Justice Gorsuch was like, “OK, maybe not always, but most of the time, or a lot of the time, or fucking some of the time…I mean, it’s not fucking out of the ordinary, right?”

Counsel Feigin was like, “OK, I’m with you again.”

So then justice Gorsuch was like, “We agree, it’s not just doctors, it’s also for pharmacists, veterinarians, pet owners, family members, et al. Like there’s a lot of people who have exceptions. And it’s pretty fucking hard to negate all of them, when many of them may not be part of the case, yeah?”

Counsel Feigin was like, “Yup.”

So Justice Gorsuch replied, “So then you’d argue that the doctor needs to prove he was acting in good faith to help his patient, yeah?”

Counsel Feigin agreed again.

So Gorsuch was like, “Well then if we agree on all this shit, isn’t it true that once he makes his argument that he was acting in good faith, it’s then government’s job to prove he wasn’t? You can’t just go back to the doc acting outside the norm, and say that’s all you need to prove.”

Counsel Feigin agreed.

So then Justice Gorsuch was like, “So it’s fucking mens rea, yeah? Why is this so fucking difficult? Is it because you work for the government, and you’re stupid?”

Counsel Feigin was like, “I’ll buy your mens rea presumption. That we assume this fuckhead doc intended to help his patient, until we prove he didn’t. But we think, when he just grabs the patients balls and tells him to cough, then gives him a gallon of Oxycontin, that no reasonable person would consider that practicing medicine.”

Associate Justice Amy Coney Barrett

Justice Barrett was like, “Where the fuck do you get that from? I don’t see anything in this law about some reasonable practice bullshit.”

I don’t know if Feigin was nervous, but god damn he fumbled all over his fucking words. He eventually spit it out that basically the FDA regulates such standards, and he therefore thinks that to prove the mens rea, somehow all he has to do is show this doc told the FDA and their standards to go fuck themselves.

Justice Roberts went on to ask:

An opinion from the Eleventh Circuit, it’s quoted at page 16 in Mr. Robbins’ brief, says that a physician’s good-faith belief that he dispensed a controlled substance in the usual course of his professional practice is irrelevant. Do you agree with that statement?

Counsel, being bruised and battered with all these questions argued that if there was some idiot who believed opioids should be taken every day along with their Flintstone vitamins, so he starts doling out Oxies on the street corner, we’d still call him a fucking drug dealer and lock his ass up. So there’s fucking limits to this good faith shit. And they believe that it’s limited to something close to fucking normal, within the medical profession.

In a unanimous decision, SCOTUS sided with the doctors, though. They ruled doctors cannot be convicted under the CSA, unless a jury decides that they did not act in good faith. They want to ensure that doctors feel free to act in the manner they believe will best help their patients, without fear of going to jail, because they were deemed as operating outside the normal standard of care.

While the doctors won on these points, it should be known, that they were scumbags of the highest order, and were convicted of racketeering, and taking kickbacks from drug makers, and will still end up spending some much needed time in a jail cell to think about what they’ve done.

So while good doctors have been protected here, these idiots are still criminals. They’re just less criminal than they were before they started all this shit.